DON'T BUY CND RODS

[yuhina]

Mark,

You missed the point...



I mentioned the potential for skew to you once a while back. Limiting the discussion to this thread, I think it is a mistake to disregard the potential positive role of inertia in casting because a physics equation implies that it makes for inefficient springs.

Trevor,

"positive role of inertia in casting"?

If I understand you right, you are back to the original confusion again, the tip weight/ inertia / rod load...

Despite using ultra light material, you still can put load/ inertia/ LINE weight on the rod tip to create the "feel". This is done by creating a regressive taper. The regressive bend feel is from the action design, not by installing the rebar in the rod tip (as Steve mentioned before). You DON'T need to put a extra "rod tip weight" to create this inertia feel...

Well... if you don't understand this difference between taper and load feel by line momentum.. there is nothing I can say... good luck on your quest!

Cheers,

Mark

 

[inland]

Greenheart actually casts quite well. PITA to hold as it gets silly heavy.

I built a spliced 5/6wt greenheart trout rod (Partridge had a closeout on some old blanks so I modified it and milled spliced joints) and it casts and fishes very well. Even on the Ranch on the Fork with a silk line.

For spey casting I have a small Somer's Vibration rod. 12' for about a 9wt spey line. Heavier and slower than say a Clay. But more then up to the task. And at 12' is quite manageable weightwise. One of these days I will refinish it so I can use all the time. I did throw a 14' Vibration many years ago. HEAVY, way heavy, but it works. The biggest issue with the larger rods is dealing with the swing weight while fishing. Casting it doesn't really matter. They cast WONDERFULLY. They pull your arm(s) out of your (their) socket(s) when fishing.

You don't throw loops like modern featherweight hollow plastic tubes with wood. Nor do you have the same linespeed. A few tweaks to your casting stroke and the loops tighten up and speed up substantially.

 

[yuhina]

For spey casting I have a small Somer's Vibration rod. 12' for about a 9wt spey line. Heavier and slower than say a Clay. But more then up to the task. And at 12' is quite manageable weightwise. One of these days I will refinish it so I can use all the time. I did throw a 14' Vibration many years ago. HEAVY, way heavy, but it works. The biggest issue with the larger rods is dealing with the swing weight while fishing. Casting it doesn't really matter. They cast WONDERFULLY. They pull your arm(s) out of your (their) socket(s) when fishing.

William,

I understand what you are saying, I have a clay rod - 12' 7/8 3 piece splice joint. It cast and fish wonderfully. Clay's rods are amazing, a lot of feel!! To me, spey fishing is the combination of art and science, if there is time I have to abandon all the scientific thoughts... that is when I fish clay's rod.

Cheers,

BTW, back to the original thread, BUY CND rods... they are one of my favorite company. a lot of great rods!

Mark

 

[TrevorH]

Mark,

Every single low flexing rod I have ever cast was largely identifiable as such simply by wiggling the rod with no line on it. Flex is to some degree a function of how the rod manages it's own weight. That is the real world, true for every single rod out there. If the top half of all the worlds rods suddenly became weightless, but retained exactly the same stiffness, their actions would change. If you are anything like me, and think that some of your rods are fantastic exactly as they are, then you should put down the equations and consider appreciating the role inertia plays in their action.

 

[yuhina]

If the top half of all the worlds rods suddenly became weightless, but retained exactly the same stiffness, their actions would change. If you are anything like me, and think that some of your rods are fantastic exactly as they are, then you should put down the equations and consider appreciating the role inertia plays in their action.

Trevor,

Unfortunately, my brain is not good enough to understand what you say here... sorry.
but the good thing is Bruce K. understand it and like your post. I am happy to see this. Maybe he has used his "energy saving heavy hammer" to solve your inertia equation. Good on him.

Do whatever makes you happy, and make you understand,Trevor. Science is not everything... as I said before, it won't help you catch more fish.


Cheers,

Mark

 

[fisshman26]

Trevor,

Unfortunately, my brain is not good enough to understand what you say here... sorry.
but the good thing is Bruce K. understand it and like your post. I am happy to see this. Maybe he has used his "energy saving heavy hammer" to solve your inertia equation. Good on him.

Do whatever makes your happy, and make you understand,Trevor. Science is not everything... as I said before, it won't help you catch more fish.

Cheers,

Mark

mark, I wish I could take credit for the hammer analogy but it actually comes from the greatest speycaster that ever lived.

 

[Klickrolf]

BTW, are you the one saying the hammer analogy?! Oh... my apology!

Maybe it's time for the weightless hammer analogy?

 

[yuhina]

Rolf,

That's funny! But more precisely, it is weightless shaft with a weighted line as a hammer head... it might a little bit hard for you to imagine since your casting energy utilized Albert Einstein's theory which is transffering mass into nuclear power, so I attached a video here for your reference, also quote what they said the importance of taking weight out of the blank.

 

[Klickrolf]

The trouble is a weightless handle cannot swing a weighted head...unless it's very very windy! You're talking about theory...I'm talking about facts.

Mass: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass

And I won't criticize your understanding of Einstien's theory...though I should!

 

[TrevorH]

It's easy to see how we talk at cross-purposes. I always considered the object being struck to represent the line and the hammer to represent the rod, but as with all analogies, this one has it's limits. At the risk of sounding like a lunatic, I've been thinking about rods and paint brushes lately, but mostly because I was doing a lot of painting...

 

[Rob Allen]

But given a particular material, it would seem that great designers (Burkie, Meiser, Loomis, Rajeff, etc...) could then use experience and intuition to mold those materials into a better, sleeker rod. Truthfully I suspect that the new resin graphite combo's are things that all new developers are looking at, even most of the smaller boutique vendors.

Dang it i typed up a big long response then accidentally deleted it
10 hours of Morel hunting near Glenwood with 4 dried out mushrooms i guess my brain is fried goodnight

 

[Klickrolf]

Deleted

 

[speyghillie]

Hi All,
Just came across this thread and i see its going off topic...... just to make it go off topic a little more,
I wanted to add a couple of points on Speycasting and its mechanics from more than 100 yrs ago, i know its old stuff but sometimes i think if we look back and dig a little we can find so much that will become new again.... in time.
While i like this debate, i think we would sometimes be better looking at some Speycasting detail other than the rod and line, i say this as the Greatest man ever to pick up a Double-handed rod regarded " Speycasting" as pretty inefficient.,So much so that he used his own cast "Highland Switch cast" to cast a distance we still cannot match or even come close to without shooting loads and loads of running line.
But It would be a mistake to think of Alexander Grant as a distance caster or even a Speycaster, in fact nothing could be further from the truth, and he never regarded himself as either, but he was a brilliant mathematicianand a man of natural science that set out to show what was possible using Rods, lines and technique based on scientific principleswhich anyone could achieve.
To this day there has never been a better rod and line designer.
Gordon.
www.mackenzieflyfishing.com

 

[yuhina]

Just come across this beautiful film, Ian Gordon fish the beautiful country... that is a lot of wonderful tradition! can't wait to watch it!

Mark

 

[Rob Allen]

Ok let me say it this way..

there is not enough difference between the different materials whereby one could use a stiffer and lighter material to make a tip with less material and maintain the same strength ( ability to move line)

for instance if you took a normal high modulus tip for say an 7 wt spey rod. you could not use a stiffer material to create a lighter tip that would have the same performance and lifting power.. why? because rods are already designed so light that there is no room left to drop. even with nano resins sods simply have to have lots of fivers to maintain and form of performance or even to hold together and we are already at the bottom limit of the material.. unless there is a new material that is stronger and stiffer than carbon spey rod tips will never be significantly lighter than they are right now.

as a manufacturer I am excited about nano resin ONLY for the purpose of reducing repairs... we are already reaching the limits of the fiber's capabilities.. resin cannot make up for a lack of fiber therefore tips will not become lighter.