Fishing and firearms

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Kent Lufkin, Oct 1, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Fish Stick

    Fish Stick New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2003
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    .
    Not sure if anyone's still reading this string, but I'll chip in too. Anyone who owns a gun should also own "Washington State Gun Rights and Responsibilities" by Dave Workman and/or "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob. Carrying a pistol outside your home is a huge responsibility and shooting a person, no matter the situation, can land you in jail for life if there aren't any friendly witnesses. Basically, a fistfight isn't enough. You'd better be facing death itself before you pull that trigger.

    That said, I do carry a six-pack of .44 bear repellent in the sticks of Montana and sometimes a 9mm cat blaster around here, usually only if I'm going somewhere isolated and bushy on foot and alone. Rarely ever will I carry a gun if I'm floating a raft. I almost always (at least on the west side of the Cascades) will carry a long tanto-style bush knife on my wading belt to clear blackberry vines and prevent wader punctures.

    Ayoob, a cop trainer, advocates lawful concealed carry because it retains your surprise advantage and let's you more easily try to talk your way out of a situation without escalation. If that doesn't work, you have a back-up plan. I don't have a CWP, but see his point. I was confronted by a Camaro full of locals at C-post bridge on the Stilly one 4th of July. 5 vs. 1 are bad odds and I talked them out of whatever they were thinking of without needing the hunting knife I had beside me on the front seat of my car. If I'd have had a gun, I sure wouldn't have wanted to show it to them prematurely because god only knows what they might've had in their car.

    FYI - Police studies have determined that at 20' a knife is more dangerous than a gun, due to its speed and the inherent inaccuracy of pistols, which is why they usually shoot knife-wielding suspects at about 20'.

    Whatever your philosophy, be careful and responsible out there. GuyG has a great point - let's continue to NOT read about this stuff in the papers. Yes, Beer brings the world together, yum! :beer2
     
  2. speyfisher

    speyfisher Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,325
    Likes Received:
    350
    Location:
    State of Jefferson U.S.A.
    Going on four pages of discussion here must surely give this post some credibility. And I would like to point out that no one has yet to be shot, or even threatened, by any of the so called paranoid gun totin' wannabe cowboys. Or whatever. Most of you seem to have your head screwed on straight. There have been some very good points brought up here.

    Myself, I grew up around guns. My Grandfather was into muzzle loading rifles as well as modern guns. There were always three of four MLRs behind every door. And there was a door going to and from every room in that old house! Closets full of them. Basement full of them. They were everywhere. There was a beautiful .22 revolver on the shelf in the coat closet. All us kids knew it was there. We would admire it from time to time when we played in that big old walk in closet. We knew how to check and see whether or not it was loaded. And we always checked. No one in our family ever got hurt by any of those guns!

    I lived in Southeast L.A. county during the Watts riots. They were throwing Molotov Cocktails only blocks from our house. I kept a firerarm in the house from that time on. My girls were little then. But as they grew up I taught them about firearms & took them shooting. They saw what a .22 or a 12 ga could do to a watermelon. I also kept the guns locked up while I was away.

    In Oregon, where I now live, I could have a CC permit if I wanted it. I could also carry concealed while on the river if I wanted to. One of these days I will get a CC permit. I think everyone who can should have one. Whether you indend to carry, or not. I also think everyone who legally owns a firearm should support that right buy joining the NRA. And with that I'll leave you with this parting thought.

    If you thought the guy who low holed you might be packing, would you still be inclinded to flip him the bird?:confused:
     
  3. chadk

    chadk Be the guide...

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    5,057
    Likes Received:
    43
    Location:
    Snohomish, WA.
    Wow - this was pulled up from October 2003. Why not start a new post, some of these guys might not even be around anymore...
     
  4. If anyone is carrying a 357 to protect themselvs from an attacking bear or cougar they are in for a pretty nasty suprise. I wouldn't use anything less than 50 cal hollowpoints in a hanndgun. A 44, 357, 9 mm, 38 or anything 99.99999% of the people carry do not have enough stopping power to instantly drop a hard charging bear or big cat. They'll run on Adrenalin right through you. Ask a cop, who has had to shoot someone who was hopped up on pcp, what they carry. Betcha it's not a 9 mm glock any more. My x's dad was city cop. Shot a guy dead center 5 times with a 9 mil and the drugged out guy still managed to stab him three times before going down. Imagaine what a full grown Black or Griz loaded with adrenalin will do to you. I am all for carrying and the right to carry. Just a bit of info to let most of ya'll know that xtra couple pounds in your pocket is probably worthless.

    Also, whoever it was that bought a pistol for home protection. It's worthless. Trade it for a sawed off 12 ga pump w/pistol grip and load it with rocksalt or pepper salt. An errant bullet will go through drywall and kill your kids, your dog, your neighbors, or some kid on the sidewalk walking home from school. ;) Plus you won't get 5 to 20 for wacking some meth head hell bent on robbing your house
     
  5. Mike T

    Mike T Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    Messages:
    890
    Likes Received:
    75
    Location:
    Gig Harbor, WA
    Should you decide to carry, be very aware of where it is and isn't legal and the legal methods of carry. For instance open or concealed carry is legal in a national forest but illegal in a national park. Open carry is legal for all who are legally allowed to own a handgun in WA, ID or MT, but don't conceal it in any fashion unless you have a valid CPL.

    As stated earlier the decision to carry isn't one to be taken lightly. Learn the laws and understand the responsibility it implies. Those times in which you are legally allowed to employ lethal force are very few and tightly defined.

    A gun is a tool, simple as that. As far as "accidentally going off" that's ridiculous. Every "accidental discharge" I've heard of or witnessed has been negligence. Keep your finger off the trigger, invest in a good holster, those Uncle Mike's at Sportco are pure crap, only aim at what you're willing to destroy, only place your finger on the trigger when you're ready to fire. If you follow all those you've done 99% of what's required to be a safe shooter.
     
  6. Snake

    Snake tryin' not to get too comfortable

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2005
    Messages:
    621
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    between the mountains and the sound
    Like a lot of you, I grew up around guns. When my Grandpap passed away, he had over 400 guns (Winchesters, Navy Cap and Balls, real classics). It was a right of passage in our family that when you could finally outshoot Granddad with his single-shot .22, he would bestow upon you your first gun. He usually let you hit more bullseyes when he thought you were ready for the responsibility of the ownership. Of course, SAFETY was always the first thing we learned. So I'm comfortable around guns, but have HUGE respect for their potential for destruction and tragedy.

    When I decided to get a CWP (fifteen years ago), I took classes specifically designed to teach proper concealment, realistic training, and most importantly, the legal ramifications of owning and carrying a weapon.

    I've only pulled my pistol once, on a very aggressive dog that was just about to attack my girlfriend and me at a trailhead in a wilderness area. The owner was enjoying our situation (literally, I looked over at him as his dog was snarling and circling us, and he was laughing!), until I pulled my .357 from under my shirt, and aimed it at his dog's head. I was just about to pull the trigger, and that was when he called his dog off.

    I almost always carry a pistol, unless prohibited (National Parks, bars, Govt offices, airports, schools). There's been a lot of times I felt better having a gun immediately available, even if I didn't need to actually use it (tweakers on back roads tailgating/harassing me, encounters with feral dogs on the river, and a rutting moose I ran into in the Idaho Selkirks). But every time, I avoided the problem by using situational awareness and the most powerful weapon of all, my brain. Carrying a weapon doesn't give you the right to be a smart ass or escalate a situation you can walk away from!

    I prefer wheelguns for the wilderness, because they are much less likely to fail in a moment of need. They don't have as many shots as an autoloader, but if you can't get it done with six, you're probably in bigger trouble then a handgun is gonna solve, anyway.

    My current backcountry/fishing pistol is a stainless Ruger GP100 .357, 4 inch barrel. The first shell is a shot shell, then five hollowpoints. I don't have much faith that I could kill a charging bear with it, but I can use it to signal if I'm hurt, kill food if needed, or defend myself against two-legged predators. I really hope and pray it never comes down to that, but I've always believed "it's better to have it and not need it", than the opposite.

    I'm thinking about getting a Scandium S&W .44, but $700? Ouch.

    Glock 19 for city carry, Kimber Custom .45 for IPSC/competition shooting, and a sweet little S&W .22 for plinking.

    Carrying a weapon is a gigantic responsibility. Don't take it lightly.
     
  7. otter

    otter Banned or Parked

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    376
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Port Angeles, Washington
    Not to sound to irreverent here, but I've got a great concept for a rockandroll band called "guns 'n fishes". Its just that i've never connected firearms and fish .......

    anyway, grew up with guns. Hunting, trap & skeet, etc. Still own guns, not that many. Personal choice for a worst case situation is my preban winchester 12 ga. riot gun loaded with alternate buck and ball. Worst case situations tend to be very close range and instantaneous.

    So my question is how did you get there in the first place?

    Some high end executive at Toyota said it some years ago about America and Americans - in reference to why Toyota was kicking our ass in the the car business -

    Americans. "Ready, fire, aim............"

    Japanese. Ready, aim, fire..........."

    As Snake sd. "the most powerful weapon of all, my brain."

    Placing your belief in firepower puts the brain to sleep. Then you die. Plenty of examples, large and small, in history.

    I'd rather be scared shitless and moving and thinking fast. And yes the riot gun is always loaded (i know, more rules broken): i just don't depend on it.

    Otter
     
  8. otter

    otter Banned or Parked

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    376
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Port Angeles, Washington
    Not to sound to irreverent here, but I've got a great concept for a rockandroll band called "guns 'n fishes". Its just that i've never connected firearms and fish .......

    anyway, grew up with guns. Hunting, trap & skeet, etc. Still own guns, not that many. Personal choice for a worst case situation is my preban winchester 12 ga. riot gun loaded with alternate buck and ball. Worst case situations tend to be very close range and instantaneous.

    So my question is how did you get there in the first place?

    Some high end executive at Toyota said it some years ago about America and Americans - in reference to why Toyota was kicking our ass in the the car business -

    Americans. "Ready, fire, aim............"

    Japanese. Ready, aim, fire..........."

    As Snake sd. "the most powerful weapon of all, my brain."

    Placing your belief in firepower puts the brain to sleep. Then you die. Plenty of examples, large and small, in history.

    I'd rather be scared shitless and moving and thinking fast. And yes the riot gun is always loaded (i know, more rules broken): i just don't depend on it.

    Otter
     
  9. TrappedinCO

    TrappedinCO Help! I'm trapped in a landlocked state.

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2005
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Littleton, CO
    To take this in a slightly different direction, does anyone have any opinions on stainless versus blued in a .44 mag revolver? Assuming one takes care of it and keeps it oiled and not neglected, does it really matter corrosion-wise with the type of environments encountered while fishing? I've heard stainless is weaker in very cold weather, but I haven't found any info to back that up.

    Good thread. Lots of good points, pro and con.
     
  10. Mike T

    Mike T Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    Messages:
    890
    Likes Received:
    75
    Location:
    Gig Harbor, WA
    TrappedinCO- I've always loved S&W revolvers in blue, but having said that two of my 3 S&W's are stainless, just for their ease of maintenance. I've never heard that stainless is weaker in extreme cold, I know it's easier to scratch than carbon steel so I suppose it follows that it's softer. But bear in mind that S&W produce their 50cal revolvers and 460 revolvers only in stainless. As those rounds generate enormous pressures & are designed for extreme use I wouldn't worry about it. If you still have questions S&W's customer service is extraordinary.
     
  11. o mykiss

    o mykiss Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2001
    Messages:
    1,478
    Likes Received:
    390
    Location:
    .
    I must say, it's always the gun threads on this site that surprise me the most. Just when you think you've pinned someone down as a mushy-headed liberal, you find out he's got more firepower than the Branch Davidians.
     
  12. Snake

    Snake tryin' not to get too comfortable

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2005
    Messages:
    621
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    between the mountains and the sound
    There are many ways, grasshopper.
     
  13. otter

    otter Banned or Parked

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    376
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Port Angeles, Washington
    Technology is just exactly as smart, or stupid, as the person using it. I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions, starting about 40,000 B.C., all continents.


    Otter
     
  14. Fish Hunter

    Fish Hunter Too many people, not enough fish

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2005
    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    WA
    Always. Kimber .45 ACP.
     
  15. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2004
    Messages:
    7,183
    Likes Received:
    1,295
    Location:
    Not sure
    Yep. Stainless = dishwasher safe.

    K
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.