Fishing related Political Question: Sarah Palin and Pebble mine?

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by herl, Sep 4, 2008.

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  1. sportsman

    sportsman Active Member

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    Frywoods quote: "The unprecedented rise in jihadists to which you refer can be traced to two specific events, Jimmy Carter deposing the Shaw of Iran and allowing the Ayatollahs to seize control"???? Where in Gods name did you come up with that? Did you have a way too far to the right PolySci professor tell you that and you actually believed him?
     
  2. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    Are we all convinced of the supreme power of a single person as the President and another as the Vice President? Not in our society, governmental structure or in today's day and age is that one or two people so powerful. Might I suggest a big picutre approach that looks at the overall governmental process? Man this thread really drew some attention!
     
  3. Derek Day

    Derek Day Rockyday

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    Wasteful practices, overextension of military resources and inability to adapt to an ever changing world can be traced, jointly or singularly, to the fall of most of the great empires of the world. Conservatism (more accurately neo-conservatism) is doing exactly this to our country.

    On the subject of national security, if anyone thinks that further isolating the rest of the world with a hawkish cold war rhetoric using president is going to keep us safer--you're wrong. If those of you who have stated nuclear war as an important voting issue you should be voting for Obama. He has recognized loose nukes as one of the most dangerous of all of our security issues. Ask most legitimate foreign policy experts and they would agree. Our security in the future will depend on our working with other nations which share our strategic interests--thorough diplomacy--not physical coercion. We can no longer depend on a strong over funded military to keep us safe--we a way beyond that.

    For me, the environment is probably the largest issue which will determine the manner in which I vote. We have to remember the disproportionate impact that the executive has on environmental policy compared to other branches of govt. The ability to drive policy within the federal agencies is HUGE. To have McCain make a pick like Palin means that he is not committed to a presidency that will recognize the environment as a top priority. I am disappointed that McCain would make such a clearly political choice. She doesn’t have the appropriate experience. She is way far to the political right. And her ideology appears to me to clash with McCain’s (we all know he is relatively moderate). McCain was also given a score of ZERO out of 100 by the League of Conservation voters for 2007.
     
  4. Mark Moore

    Mark Moore Just a Member

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    Geez, I had to look that up. Kind of reminds me of my divorce.:(
     
  5. Gorgefly

    Gorgefly Member

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  6. Mark Moore

    Mark Moore Just a Member

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    Didn't get that far in college (which I am sure will answer a lot of questions for some of you),
    I was too busy earning a living, building a business, paying taxes, raising my son and missing out on a lot of fishing. So what I believe is what I have OBSERVED Not what some way too far to the left PolySci professor, ya know the kind who has never had to balance a budget, provide real jobs for real people or decide who to lay off when the economy inevitably slows down, taught me. The kind of guy whose idea of dealing with the economy is to raise taxes and promise everybody a job working for the government. BTW my business partners' life long best friend is Iranian and thinks my estimation of Jimmy Carter is charitable. No exception to my criticism of Ronald Regan?:beathead:
     
  7. Mark Moore

    Mark Moore Just a Member

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    Your assertion that, "We have to remember the disproportionate impact that the executive has on environmental policy compared to other branches of govt. The ability to drive policy within the federal agencies is HUGE" neglects to recognize the real intractability of these agencies. They are staffed with overwhelmingly left leaning civil servant bureaucrats who frequently ignore or undermine the directives of the Executive. Almost as much so as the State Dept.
    I'm guessing that foreign policy experts who assert that "the only thing Jihadists respect is absolute strength and a willingness to use it" are illegitimate? I assure you that Jihadists don't give a shit about diplomacy.
     
  8. sportsman

    sportsman Active Member

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    A nice little story, mostly rhetorical, but OK. Does nothing to explain your previuos statement and outlook on one of the more remarkable 20th Century Revolutions we have witnessed: not driven by the religious right but by their religious leaders! Who can forget the spectacle of the Ayotolla Khomeini on his journey from Paris and his reception when he made it to Iran?! I was no fan of Carter, did ok on domestic, but was a boy lost in the international commuinity and certainly not capable of empowereing[or deposing] anyone! My professor was the owner of the fishing vessel in AK while we were feeding the worlds hungry---NOT, but we were contributing to the GNP and making some good money at the same time!
     
  9. Steven Green

    Steven Green Hood Canal Pirate

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    Ha!
     
  10. Keith Hixson

    Keith Hixson Active Member

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    I really wish this thread would be shut down. I come here to discuss fly fishing and fly tying. There are dozens of political discussions sites. If I want political discussion I will visit one of them. I just hate it when a non-political site becomes polluted with politics beyond it original intent. But this has gone way past the intent of the thread.

    Keith
     
  11. Mark Moore

    Mark Moore Just a Member

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    We can debate whether or not Carter withdrawing US support for The Shahs' regime resulted in his displacement or not but I concede your point that the return of Ayatollah Khomeini did result in at least one Spectacle- 9/11/2001
    The whole "Carter did OK on Domestic" speaks for itself, with double digit inflation,unemployment, and high double digit home mortgages to go with 70% marginal tax rates.

    As far as feeding the world, we certainly have missed a few hungry mouths in our imperfect history, but we've done a helluva lot better than say, IRAN. What Kills me about that argument is that it's OK for us to have the responsibility of feeding the rest of the world just not protecting it.
     
  12. Mark Moore

    Mark Moore Just a Member

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    Out of respect for Keith and anyone else who thinks this has gone too far, I am happy to continue in PM, otherwise I'm done.

    In the immortal words of the great philosopher Rodney King "can't we all just get along":beer2:?
     
  13. Daryle Holmstrom

    Daryle Holmstrom retiredfishak

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  14. Flyborg

    Flyborg Active Member

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    I've been trying to find an excuse to work that in for a while. This thread seemed the most appropriate :)
     
  15. dryflylarry

    dryflylarry "Chasing Riseforms"

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    Political discussions are ok. This has been related to a fishery issue. Besides, if you all turn to Page 2 of this thread, you will find a STINKING AD for John McCain! Can you imagine that on a fly fishing site?!!!! :D

    Fly Fishers for OBAMA
     
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