Fishing the bottom.

Discussion in 'Stillwater' started by Dustin Bise, Apr 7, 2008.

  1. ceviche

    ceviche Active Member

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    :rofl: iagree

    iagree Once again, she nails the crux of it. If you plan on C&R'ing, the whole point is the survivability of the trout. If you're going to eat the fish, then, that's a whole other thing. However, as ascender pointed out, summer trout don't taste good. Soft meat and muddy tasting. So, then, what's the point of fishing deep when the trout are hiding there because the surface water is too warm and oxygen depleted? Maybe it's Nature's way of telling you to "Just say, 'Noooooo!'"?

    As far as Kokanee are concerned, people pretty much only fish them to eat. In that case, no sin there: "Go deep and eat!" And keep posting them tactics!

    --Dave E.
     
  2. Nolan

    Nolan New Member

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    CWUGirl it was late at night when I was typing I should have explained better. There was no argument just a statement that when we release fish anytime of the year that they are going to die from lack of food, mishandling, and other predators on any lake at any time of the year. I was offering a suggestion of what to fish for when to minimize the impact if he was fishing for trout. He didn't specify where or what he was fishing for. I think he already established that he was concerned by asking how to minimize his impact on the fish. I don't want to turn this into another C&R ethics thread. I am more interested in learning more about fly fishing that deep as I could apply that to some lakes I fish.
     
  3. chadk

    chadk Be the guide...

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    Like the kokanee, if the trout are staying deep in the cooler water, the meat will be fine (assuming the lake in question is deep and offers this cooler water - not all will...). Just don't stick them on a stringer to slowly die and bake in the warm surface water. Bleed and put directly on ice :thumb:
     
  4. Quan

    Quan Super Fat Cat Float Tuber

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    Nolan, I think either I'm misunderstanding your point or you are misinformed. Either way, I will try to lay out the problem here. What CWUgirl is pointing out is that the act of fishing deep in lowland lakes in the summer to catch & release trout will most likely end in a dead trout, therefore, nullifying your noble C&R efforts. Essentially, during hot summer months, you may as well have bonked the trout on the head and eaten it rather than just letting it die a slow, pointless death after you "release" it.

    The trout go deeper during the summer for a reason. The cooler, more oxygenated water is what sustains them during these months. When you pull a fish from the deep, you fight it on the surface, where the water is too warm and poorly oxygenated. By the time it gets to you, it is half dead and will not be able to recover and eventually die later that day, despite the fact you released it. What killed the fish? It wasn't predation. It wasn't lack of food. It was the fact that you pulled it from the deeps and exhausted and suffocated it to death. Think of it this way, it's like taking a human and wrestling him underwater until he drowns and then throwing him back on shore to "release" him.

    You are correct in saying that fish do die due to lack of food and natural predation year round, but catching and releasing them during summer months will just end up in that many more fish dying needlessly.

    Furthermore, CWUgirl is stating that if you are not fishing for C&R, fishing in lakes with catch limits is more noble since these rules are put in place to try to keep a balance. You will catch your limit, and then leave. This is in contrast to "nobly releasing" the 25 fish you caught on a hot summer day only to really end up killing them all.

    Anyway, I agree with you Nolan - to an extent. Fishing for warmwater species like bass is a good alternative to trout during the hot summer months. But switching to trout in the mornings and evenings doesn't make any difference. The thermocline layer stays a relatively steady temperature throughout seasons with very minute variations throughout the day. It doesn't get drastically cooler at night and then drastically warmer during the day. So switching to them in the cooler times of the day doesn't necessarily save them from the warm and poorly oxygenated water. I also agree with you that we should not turn this into a C&R ethics thread, but I just wanted to try to squash that part of the thread with this post. The other part of this whole argument is that Dustin never did say he was fishing for catch & release. Maybe he's looking for some dinner. =)

    On to what we're supposed to be talking about. If you are in high mountain or northern lakes, I would imagine a good way to get 50+ feet deep is to put away your fly gear and break out the lead weights and downriggers... =P Other than that, I've heard of people fishing for rockfish and halibut in the salt, and I believe they use a some type of sinking line.
     
  5. Dustin Bise

    Dustin Bise Active Member

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    i never said how i was fishing because i presented the thread completely from a technique standpoint. I'm glad everyone here has there own ethics regarding fish, but I did not state WHERE, WHAT, or WHEN i was fishing. To many assumptions have been made and i let people decided for them self what is moral about fishing. Any fisher, by nature of the sport, is acting in efforts against the fish. Proper conservation technique would be to fence off the lake.

    Thanks for all the great info though everyone. I now have some new weapons in my arsenal to go out and murder native lake fish by the hundreds when i "release" them. I couldn't do this before cause I didn't know how to get my worm tipped woolly bugger down to the fish... type 6 line here I come!
     
  6. Dustin Bise

    Dustin Bise Active Member

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    oh and i was thinking about making my own deep water line, a lead based casting tip + 20 feet of type 3 + backing. think a setup line this would reach bottom given the time and slack?
     
  7. Daryle Holmstrom

    Daryle Holmstrom retiredfishak

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    Dustin,

    T14 is a line with tungsten powder in the coating, it sinks at 14 inches per second. I marked mine with a white Dacron uni knot coated with super glue at every five feet. So basically it hangs straight down in the water column. I watch the fish finder to see where the kokes are at what depth and adjust the line to match that depth. Use a little red, white fly that they enjoy.

    Daryle
     
  8. theworm

    theworm Member

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    and what is wrong with an ethics thread?

     
  9. Dustin Bise

    Dustin Bise Active Member

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  10. Quan

    Quan Super Fat Cat Float Tuber

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    Here's that T-14 line at Cabela's. It's actually pretty inexpensive. Although, the stuff I linked says it only sinks 8"-9" per second... which is still fast as hell, but is contrary to the 14 ips Daryle spoke of so it may not be the same line he's talking about.

    http://www.cabelas.com/prod-1/0037441319388a.shtml

    By the way, it's tungsten powder extruded as an additive in the fly line coating, not tungsten coated. That'd be one shiny bad ass looking fly line, though. =P
     
  11. Jim Wallace

    Jim Wallace Smells like low tide.

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    Think he meant 14 grains per foot of T-14. 12 feet would be 168 grains. 15 feet would weigh 210 grains, etc.
    Entire 30 feet weighs 420 grains.

    Have fun figuring out what lengths you want to cut it.
     
  12. Daryle Holmstrom

    Daryle Holmstrom retiredfishak

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    That's what I meant Jim, sometimes this old brain and typing fingers aren't in sync, anyway the line sinks like a rock.

    Daryle
     
  13. Keith Hixson

    Keith Hixson Active Member

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    If you are going to use this line, why not just buy tungsten trolling line and use it. That seems to be just as much fly fishing as anything else.?

    Keith
     
  14. Dustin Bise

    Dustin Bise Active Member

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    wow im sorry i forgot that other kinds of fly fishing were banned here. I still want to pretend to cast the stuff. :beathead:
     
  15. Keith Hixson

    Keith Hixson Active Member

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    Back in the Seventies we attached weighted trolling line to our fly line so we could get down quicker for steelhead, also worked great for trolling until we had sinking tip lines, etc. But I want you to know: That stuff was very hard to cast! But I did catch lots of trout trolling with that stuff.

    I wonder how that: RIO® T-14™ Super Fast Sinking Fly Line casts? I hope it does better than the stuff we created back in the seventies.

    Keith