For Those That Support The Removal Of The Lower Snake River Dams...

Discussion in 'Conservation' started by ColtonM, Dec 9, 2016.

  1. ColtonM

    ColtonM Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2013
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    40
    River Pig and jake-e-boy like this.
  2. Chris Johnson

    Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    3,701
    Likes Received:
    1,807
    Location:
    Bellingham Wa.
    What a tool ( her not you).
     
  3. Jmills81

    Jmills81 The Dude Abides

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2007
    Messages:
    2,260
    Likes Received:
    568
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    The good thing....she's out, Zinke from Montana is in
     
  4. ColtonM

    ColtonM Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2013
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    40
    I heard about that last night. I'll take what we can get, I guess. From my ten minutes of research it appears he's slightly more favorable than Rogers.
     
  5. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2001
    Messages:
    9,588
    Likes Received:
    6,471
    Location:
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Anyone that considers themselves a conservationist or environmentalist has to be concerned with the incoming administration's cabinet in its entirety. It is plain to see this administration is for big business at any cost, the environment be damned.
     
  6. Chris Johnson

    Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    3,701
    Likes Received:
    1,807
    Location:
    Bellingham Wa.
    And most of everything else!
     
  7. jake-e-boy

    jake-e-boy sans caféine

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2013
    Messages:
    1,997
    Likes Received:
    1,564
  8. Vladimir Steblina

    Vladimir Steblina Retired Forester...now fishing instead of working

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2009
    Messages:
    1,435
    Likes Received:
    1,025
    Location:
    Wenatchee, WA
    Home Page:
    Here is the question for those advocating the removal of the Snake River dams. They produce the equivalent of FOUR nuclear power plants.

    Where do you want to put them??

    Look even the city of Seattle has given up on conservation. Industrial wind areas means millions of acres of land destroyed. Coal is gone. We could follow California and put dozens of natural gas power plants....in western Washington since that is where the demand is coming from. Maybe that is where the nuclear power plants should go.

    A few years ago when it looked like the dams might go...all of a sudden the Governors of Oregon and Washington decided it might not be a good idea since it would impact western Washington and Oregon.

    Removing those dams is fine, but you need to replace the electricity generated.

    With the Spotted Owl decision we shifted our timber harvesting to British Columbia. Out of sight and mind. Go look at Google Earth at British Columbia....that's is where the environmental impact of the Spotted Owl decision in the states resides. We stopped the most environmentally sensitive logging on the planet for Forestry Canadian style.....which as a professional Forester I can tell is a environmental DISASTER.

    Cathy McMorris is wrong. 70% of Washington's energy comes from fossil fuels. 70% of the electricity comes from hydro.
     
    Just Fish Stories and Old406Kid like this.
  9. Josh

    Josh dead in the water

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    3,986
    Likes Received:
    1,727
    Location:
    NW Washington
    Where are you getting these numbers? The four snake river dams have a generating capacity of 3033 MW (BPA's own numbers). Looking at averages from fairly recent* plants in the USA, each reactor outputs around ~1000 MW each and most recent plants have 1-3 reactors So, in reality, the Snake River dams generating capacity could be replaced with as few as a single plant, or, three reactors. Either way you look at it, "four nuclear power plants" is inaccurate.

    Perhaps more to the point, that 3033 is only the THEORETICAL generating capacity of the snake river dams. The actual energy generated by those dams is just 1022 MW a year (again, BPA's own numbers). And even that number isn't really helpful on its own. Most of this power is generated during spring runoff. These dams are run-of-river dams and have no ability to store water for generating capacity (or irrigation for that matter) when flows are lower and power demands are at their highest in the summer and winter. At those times, the four dams are only generating 425-525 MW.

    Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for us to toss up a new nuclear plant here in WA. That's a significantly bigger debate. Nor is it to say that the power generated by the Snake River dams can just be ignored and not replaced. My point is that the amount of power that would need to be replaced in the grid by removing the Snake River dams is significantly less than what you are presenting above. Yes, it's still power that needs to be accounted for in whatever dam removal plan is put forth. But it is not four nuclear power plants worth. In fact, it's barely even one nuclear reactor's worth.

    * Bear in mind that "recent" is relative since few nuclear power plants have been constructed in the US in the past 30 years or so.
     
    JS, JohnB and jake-e-boy like this.
  10. Vladimir Steblina

    Vladimir Steblina Retired Forester...now fishing instead of working

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2009
    Messages:
    1,435
    Likes Received:
    1,025
    Location:
    Wenatchee, WA
    Home Page:
    When I was working I received a spreadsheet with generating capacity of every facility in the United States. I compared the Snake River dams versus existing nuclear plants. That is the number.

    I agree with your comments on THEORETICAL capacity. This is where Industrial Wind Areas really fudge their numbers. Generation by hydro varies by water year, etc. etc. Nuclear stays pretty constant.

    The important issue is how is western Oregon and Washington going to replace the electricity they use from the Snake River dams?? We have more electricity than needed in eastern Washington....that is why so much of it exported out of region.

    In California, their solar and wind push resulted in 30% new generating capacity for solar and wind AND 70% new natural gas capacity to back up the solar and wind. So does California have a solar and wind environmental program or is it really a natural gas program?? There was a article in WSJ or Forbes that California is using so much natural gas for generating electricity that they ARE setting the price of natural gas nationwide!!

    I am not against dam removal. I would love to see the Hetch Hetchy Valley restored in Yosemite National Park and Ross Dam removed in the north Cascades. Those to me are higher priority than the Snake River dams. The city of San Francisco has THREE dams inside of Yosemite National Park!!
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  11. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    10,663
    Likes Received:
    4,070
    Location:
    Ruby Valley, MT
    With what the shale and natural gas industry will do over the long haul, many will be longing for the days of coal.