Frameless Inflatables: Looking 4 nitty gritty on NFO & Watermaster

Discussion in 'Watercraft' started by stripntwitch, Jul 11, 2011.

  1. Blue

    Blue Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,251
    Likes Received:
    128
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Home Page:

    Huh? the WM Kodiak (if this is the right one) is 8’ 10” long, 52” wide, weighs 43 lbs, and has a capacity of 750 lbs
    The Renegade is 9' long, 56" wide, weighs 28 lbs, and has a capacity of 800 lbs.

    Or are you talking about the big 2 man framed Kodiaks. If so, then yes, they are almost twice as big at 16' and 18'. Apples and Oranges LOL
     
  2. Brian Miller

    Brian Miller Be vewy vewy qwiet, I'm hunting Cutthwoat Twout

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    890
    Likes Received:
    88
    Location:
    WA
    Obviously I didn't check the specs. In the video not knowing how tall the owner is but I'm just shy of 6' and I don't think my legs are bent like his, but then I can rest my feet on top of the footstrap and up against the bow to row. Perhaps all that combined with the closed bow of the Kodiak without the rocker gives the illusion the WM is longer. From where the owner is sitting the cargo deck on the Renegade looks shorter but that may be an illusion too. Again I didn't say shorter was a negative.
     
  3. Blue

    Blue Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,251
    Likes Received:
    128
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Home Page:
    I hear ya. I have the Renegade so very familiar with that...but haven't a clue on the Kodiak. For my type of fishing, I prefer the open end, that is all.
    Just answered the question of standing on one too, although, I have yet to try it...maybe this weekend. It could be really cool...or could be really wet...LOL
     
  4. stripntwitch

    stripntwitch New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2011
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Moline, IL
    Hi all,
    Dave and I finally made contact! No, still no concrete decision, but maybe by tomorrow. Before I forget: I would love to hike in to an Alpine lake someday. What an experience it would be! And landing a Brookie would be frosting on an already great cake. Thx for posting pics. I agree, that a float tube would be the way to go. BUT, if I had a Kodiak I could and would still go....
    Now back to what I've learned. Between the Rampage, Renegade and Assault, the Ramage is immensely more stable to stand on. Staggering your legs around a strapped down cooler increases this. All can be stood on, but Renegade isn't as recommended d/t its smaller surface area and open end (vs. the Assault). On Assault, if you fall forward, you may still land on the boat in some fashion. I would stand on any, but bet greater risks are taken with the smaller boats. Each boat uses the same size roller duffle. So, if you get a smaller boat, I imagine you have more room and easier packability. The duffle weighs about 12#. There is also a backpack/dry bag version which weighs about 4.5# The Rampage is much faster/more maneuverable than the Renegade. One could do a 2-3 day float trip on any of the 3 boats. A 2nd person could sit on the front of the Assault, but not comfy very long. On Rampage, it is more doable. Dave said the Assault is just a very fun boat. He said something about kayak moves and mentioned a few times about what fun it is. Another Assault advantage is one can lay the front of rod on front of the Assault and fin backward and troll. Of course Renegade and Assault are most easily packable into the backcountry. I like all the boats, including the Watermaster. If I could try them out or even see them, perhaps my purchase would be different. I think I'll decide between the Rampage and the Assault. If I'm out on the water for 1 day and don't like it, I can work with NFO and get a different style of boat. The Rampage may be more boat than I need, but I will never need to buy a larger boat. I'd guess a float tube would be the next purchase to have all my bases covered if I need to take a big hike with watercraft. IF I buy smaller, I could still want a float tube and a larger boat.... Now, figuring out the cost difference between the two boats and if it is worth the extra $$ will be another factor.
     
  5. Blue

    Blue Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,251
    Likes Received:
    128
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Home Page:
    stripntwitch, you are right about that Rampage being more stable for sure. It is 10'6", same as my framed X5 (which does have one of the largest standing deck)
    But you said "The Rampage is much faster/more maneuverable than the Renegade." I question that one as it is a bigger boat. I know my Renegade is by far faster and more maneuverable than my X5 and I have the top of the line oars on both.

    Then you mentioned, if you fall on the Assault you have the closed end to help your fall, so, stand backwards on the Renegade facing the closed end....

    I am a thin woman (older) and stand 5'8"....I have no problem at all packing the 28 lb Renegade. If I can do it, anyone can.

    The reason I bought the Renegade is because we have the Uinta's with thousands of remote lakes. Hike ins for sure, but I like the room on the Renegade and the oars are the icing on the cake.

    And for trolling, I have actually hooked some darn nice fish by putting the rod in the built in holder on the side of the bag and the sort of jerk of the oars rowing.

    Not trying to sway ones choice, they are all top of the line boats, just giving some hands on info.
     
  6. stripntwitch

    stripntwitch New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2011
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Moline, IL
    Hi utahflygoddess. Thanks for responses and the education! In time, I hope to pass it along as well. One of the reasons why I'd initially considered the Renegade over Rampage was due to it being more packable. Sounds as if we are built similarly. If I can portage 70# packs at BWCA, I'm sure I can do these boats. However, I realize that what fits in the NFO bag isn't all that goes on the trip. There is probably much more than I realize not having the experience yet. While I can carry decent weight and getting the job done is satisfying, I can't honestly say it is always fun. That being said, I should buy the Renegade or Assault, right? But no, I will probably get the Rampage. Again, there would be no regrets about not going lrg enough. I may complain that it is too much boat? But, a mistake in that direction is less costly(maybe getting a float tube) than wishing I'd purchased something larger. I'm balancing taking the advice of another poster who said to get the boat to fit my needs and make transporting it a 2ndary issue.
    Also, I'm trying not to directly quote Dave while still trying to be helpful to others who may find these posts. My hope is others will find our posts useful, and contact Dave or Watermaster for added info. I was also surprised to hear about how the Rampage moves on the water vs. the Renegade. It has something to do with it having more floatation but I didn't write down everything he said. (I guess the frameless x5 is also a little heavier than Rampage as Rampage has inflatable seat. Maybe something to do with what u mentioned about x5?) On the flip side, I'm told each of these boats is quite maneuverable. From what I learned, any boat will do fine for me on the waters I will visit. Another nagging thought is that I'd like the opportunity to temporarily have a passenger on the boat. So far, my friends load their boats on the trailer or vehicle and take me fishing. I'd like to be able to reciprocate, if even on a short trip, simply travelling hole to hole. It would rarely happen, but the Rampage is my best option. Oh, and the comment about the Assault/falling, etc: some folks feel more secure having both ends enclosed. I understand that. While looking at video I understood more clearly the comment that if you fall you may come into contact with the Assault boat more readily than with open water. If I'm standing on a toon-shaped boat there is always one side open to possibly fall toward, no matter which direction one faces. For some folks that will be important and others, no biggie. I like the trolling/rod holder idea.....Still have to figure out the roller duffel vs. the backpack and which fins to get, and Also debating the lighter oars, but will probably reach my my max $ limit before that becomes a serious possibility. I don't have a spouse to get mad at my spending, but I do need to have the gas money to take trips with my cool new boat!
     
  7. stripntwitch

    stripntwitch New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2011
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Moline, IL
    Well, it's done. I want to thank everyone for the input! I think I'd like any of the 3-4 boats, but knew I would never want a larger boat if I went with the Rampage. I still have time to decide if it would be worth it if I wanted the larger/lighter oars, and if I get an anchor set-up and which fins to purchase. Went with the roller duffle in lieu of the drybag backpack. I'll buy a larger verson of the latter when I find something affordable. As others say, Dave has been great to work with, patient and very accomodating. He actually steered me away from an accessory as I may not need it for my water uses. I appreciated the honesty. When I get my blue toon on the water, I'll provide some feedback. Thanks again! Lisa
     
  8. stripntwitch

    stripntwitch New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2011
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Moline, IL
    Utahflygoddess & others:
    What are your thoughts on the Litespeed oars vs. the standard oars? I've read the Litespeeds are faster. Are the standards that much heavier? Is one pair of oars more durable than the other? (wonder if this should be a new post). I'll call and firm up one or the other early half of next week. thx. Lisa
     
  9. Brian Miller

    Brian Miller Be vewy vewy qwiet, I'm hunting Cutthwoat Twout

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    890
    Likes Received:
    88
    Location:
    WA
    If I could afford them I'd love to have a pair of 3-piece (to fit in the bag) carbon fiber oars that are about a foot longer than the Caviness oar upgrade I got with the Kodiak expedition package.

    And just a thought... a spare oar is a good thing to have if you are doing extended trips, but that adds to the expense.
     
  10. Blue

    Blue Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,251
    Likes Received:
    128
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Home Page:
    I love the lite speeds. Mine are 6'5" and perfect. I have mine licensed and have the motor and motor mount, but I rarely use them with this boat. Just fly with ease. The hubby did a video of me rowing this last weekend, and man I was flying with little effort. Rowed a whole lake for three days and feel great.

    Plus as mentioned, that three piece is awesome. I have a bag for my Omega's. I put them, the broke down oars, my foot bar all in this nice little bag.
    Sweet!
     
  11. scottybs

    scottybs Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Messages:
    520
    Likes Received:
    98
    Location:
    Bellingham, WA and IGH, MN
    Home Page:
    I just stepped back in the door from an 18 day 4000 mile road trip along with 2 NFO renegades with my buddy. My evaluation is at the Renegade overall is a nice handling craft but has it's problems and limitations. We floated the Henry's Fork and Bitteroot rivers under highwater with no problems/controllability issues. Fished a few high mountain lakes with excellent success!!! (absolutely love the boat!) the drawbacks have been with the accessories, 3 out of our 4 sidebags have ripped at the seams (we tool delivery in May), the foot bar supports on my friends raft have broken, my foot bar bent(not an issue for me because I'm tall.) l, and lastly customer service has not been the greatest with NFO. If you're to purchase an NFO boat I would probably upgrade the oars and customize them myself to
    Give you more reach, that being said, I do like my Renegade but their are a couple of issues that have come up.
     
  12. mojo

    mojo Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Yewtah
    So the boat was fine, the side bags ripped at the seams, your buddy's footbar supports broke and you bent yours. Seems like operator error to me. Not the manufacturer's.
    Of course I could be wrong.
     
  13. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2004
    Messages:
    7,168
    Likes Received:
    1,257
    Location:
    Not sure
    I've noticed lately in reading this and other threads that contain posts that are occasionally critical of NFO's products and service, it seems like Dave's staunchest defenders (and the people who claim to get the best customer service) are you folks who live in the SLC area. Maybe that's because Dave finds that it's more tempting to ignore customers who live a time zone or two away than someone who can drive over and deal with him belly to belly.

    But I'm sure that's just a coincidence and I could very well be wrong.

    K
     
  14. Blue

    Blue Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,251
    Likes Received:
    128
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Home Page:
    You are. There has been other supporters that are out of state.
     
  15. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2004
    Messages:
    7,168
    Likes Received:
    1,257
    Location:
    Not sure
    I figured I probably was. But since you seem to be keeping track, how many have you found from Utah that don't like his products or customer service?

    K