G Q or Cosmo

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by stewart dee, Nov 8, 2009.

  1. floatinghat

    floatinghat Member

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    "Skagit casting came to be due to innovations to make casting efforts easier."

    Mumbles, right idea but not quite accurate, it came along because easier to throw half a chicken. You can't turn over an Intruder on a Carron, it just won't happen.

    "Why would one beat thy self to death learning (arguably) the toughest casting with a long belly traditional line if learning with new technology makes it easier, better on the shoulders or any other improvement."


    Because you are fishing a river that calls for 100' casts, cast after cast (Thompson, Snake, Columbia, parts of the CW, Deschutes.....) A long belly is much more efficient in these situations.

    Skagit isn't really new other than by term. Look at scandi lines, they have been in use for years. They are designed to turn over smaller flies, they are still a short belly line (they just have a front taper). 15+ years ago Mark B in Welches was selling "launcher" lines. They were a 12-14 wt SW line (35') with the front taper cut off. Dec, Ed and others used to cut windcutters way short.

    Casting a LB doesn't beat you to death, hell I've fished a 90' belly line on a 16'7 rod for a week and not felt like I was getting beat up. I had a couple of shorter back up rods that I could and would have switched to if I was getting the least bit sore. Yes, it's different than Skagit not better or worse.
     
  2. James Mello

    James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

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    Ahh, one of the best belly laughs I've had in a while. You might want to take a dander at some of the newer rods. Some are good, some are bad, but almost all of them are infinitely better than some of those old bricks like the Winston Derek Brown Special.
     
  3. HauntedByWaters

    HauntedByWaters Active Member

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    I used to worry about this crap. How spey fishing is getting sold out. How there are more fly anglers on the Skagit/Sauk than gears some days these days.

    I don't give a fuck anymore.

    I have caught enough fish behind guys who only looked like they knew what they were doing to be fine with it.

    I am still obsessed with first water but don't feel like second water is a waste of time.

    The people who catch fish, fish a lot, pay attention, and enjoy not catching fish some days.

    The rest is irrelevant. Marketing. Whatever. A bunch of unimportant shit that will only make your wallet smaller, not catch you more fish.

    I buy lots of nice new gear when I can afford it and it isn't to be en vogue. It is because I am a fishing nerd who likes to try this stuff. I don't flaunt it, I use it until it falls apart because it gets what I need it to do done and it does it well.
     
  4. _WW_

    _WW_ Geriatric Skagit Swinger

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    If you say that enough it might come true!

    I'd say more but I have to put some spey grease in my spey reel and polish up my spey rod with a spey towel, put the thing into its spey case next to my spey hat and spey jacket inside my spey closet. In the morning I might spey up some coffee, eat a spey banana, take a big spey in the toilet, grab my spey outfit, spey vest, spey tub-full-o-spey-waders, heave it all into my spey canopy on my spey truck, drive down to the corner, spey right and head upriver to the secret Skagit spey hole, park in some spey mud, put on my spey duds, spey down to the river, string the spey line up through the spey guides and out the spey top only to realize I left my spey flies at home in my spey office. Lucky for me I have some spey Dick Nites!
     
  5. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    :rofl:
     
  6. stewart dee

    stewart dee Guest

    lol Cosmo is lookin for an outdoors cover picture. Must own a Sabb with Rod holders and smoke a cigar.
     
  7. speyday

    speyday Rod tubes in the overhead compartment

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    Midwestern Observations

    SHORT ANSWER:

    DATELINE--NEWAYGO,MI:

    This just in. I'm happy to report that a lot of good manners, fellowship, and etiquette on the water seem to be passing down to new guys spey fishing. Im not surprised --at all--that the finer points of the whole sport seem to be alive and well here in MI waters. They say its because spey fishing its not about the numbers. We all know that. If it were about the numbers, we'd all be centrepinning & throwing spawn bags or shrimp. Its about the magic. And the grab. There's my short answer. Now some observation if you choose to read on:


    LONG ANSWER:

    The muskegon river is under 4 hours from chicago (rich guys), less than 3 from Detroit, and only 30 minutes from Grand Rapids. Our population density is every bit as big as the beltway between Vancouver, Seattle, and Portland. About 90% of the fishing is from boats.

    Over the last 10 years, like over there, its gotten a very big increase in spey anglers. Maybe I'm one of the new guys. I say, I hope that EVERYBODY converts over !!! I am totally "for" the good things that happen when guys ditch the gear and spawn and come out swingin'

    In my area, the nouveaux "spey guys" posses the following charachteristics:

    Spey guys seem to slow down thier boats when passing anglers especially spey anglers and cut a wider berth. Years ago, this didn't happen much.
    (On a busy day, boats and anglers are spaced out about every 75 yards all the way down the whole river. Dont know how that compares to your rivers. Just a reference point.)

    Spey guys work thru a run, looking for players, and promptly leave the water for others. I have yet to see a spey guy on a run for for than 30 minutes unless they are in a party of 2 or more.

    Spey guys seem to anchor no less than 100 yards from other spey guys. In a good run, gear or bait fisherman are less than 5 yards from each other.
    (Can I get a local "Amen" from anyone whose fished Tippy Dam, The "American Club", Burt Dam, the rez on the Catt, B-Ville, Niagra's Whirlpool or Berrien Springs?)

    Spey guys --strangely--seem to be HELPING one another with casting more than the drift fisherman in the 'line up' might help another. And around here, a good % of drift fisherman are snaggers with 6-foot leaders.

    Spey fisherman aren't playing "mouth hockey" to spawning fish on the gravel. Havent seen it.
    Gravel fishing and lining are a dark tradition here.

    I've never, and I mean never, seen a BMW-driving, rod rack toting, cologne smelling, spey guy
    --kill a wild fish. But I have seen wild fish killed on our waters. Have you?

    Spey guys don't care about numbers of fish; vs. an army of chuck and duckers and spawn guys who bang fish around them regularly. This is a paradox and big deal in the midwest, where fish numbers are plentiful; thus a kind of peer pressure and competitiveness exists.

    Spey guys don't seem to be in a lot of hero shots where fish are mishandled badly out of the water a la STS.

    Spey guys are learning to adopt their techniques to fish "not so spey" water other than runs or tailouts. They are adapting and changing and innovating new ways to take fish on swung flies. And, on flies other than indtuders or green butt skunks. That stuff doesn't work over here.

    Ive been a "spey guy" for awhile when it was fairly rare in the midwest. I first fished a 2 hander in 1991. I don't know if thats recent, medium, or old school. Its all relative.



    CONCLUSION

    If you call me a newbie, fine. But know this:

    "What I lack in skill--I make up for with pure enthusiasm".

    I love buying and selling off gear, love the casting practice (when I can get it) and been known to catch a fish or two. Ive gotten professional instuctions a few times now, and word is out on how thick-headed I am. FFF guides run at the sound of my name. (Oh well.....)

    One of the best fishing guides in the Midwest for steelhead on the swung fly--his name is Kevin--and I wouldn't call him an expert caster. But the guy is fishy. And courteous beyond belief. He's a spey guy whose a spey guide. But he hasn't been doing it for 1000 years. Other guides who aren't spey guys?-- don't seem as courteous and quite a few have dubious reputations around here.

    My point is that as I turned into a spey guy, other things about fishing have become more important, and I find the same things happening to other newly converted guys. My supreme fishing moment of all time happened when two chuck-and-duckers asked me to teach them, and I watched the magic as they both got cranked by fish on the swing.....and the repeated disbelief and saying over and over at the take-out......."I didn't know a steelhead could DO that !!!!! "

    Even it they drive a Saab and have a rod holder on the car. So what. I choose not to jump on this bandwagon of a post, and try to embrace the change, and pass on the traditions of good manners on the water.

    I dont know--Maybe we should count our blessings given some of the positive thoughts above. You can borrow my glasses and see it the way that I see it. Maybe teach the new guys about the magic. The mojo. The subculture and as Dave P. would put it--the soul.

    If not, Sorry for the rant and rave and raining on the parade.
     
  8. rosstucker32

    rosstucker32 New Member

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    I am a "new" speyguy, and I am young, so probobly I am who this thread is intended against. Here is my defense, logical or not.

    Lets look at the ski industry and the itroduction of parabolic skis around 10 or so years ago. At first the "old guys" complained that you couldn't learn to make a "real" turn on them. Now you can't find anyone (60 yr old Ski Bums included) who isn't on a pair. Also - I do not believe that any manufacturers are making non-parabolic skis anymore or skis over 200 cm (at least in terms of full production runs). Parabolic skis simply perform better. I, for one, could care less about the tradition of 200cm Skis (or their long-belly counterparts) I like to use the tool that is best for the job, whether it is a 200 year old or 2 week old technology. I believe this makes me practical, not "GQ".

    I also love my $400 raincoat. It has big pockets for my fly boxes, and it keeps me and my stuff dry and warm. And if it ever fails, or if I ever decide it isn't doing its job, I know I can send it back. Tomorrow or 20 years from now, I can send it back. I believe this, also, is a practical decision.

    Now, if I ever reach the point of putting gel in my hair before fishing, loading up my rod rack with rods I won't use that day, and waxing my car before hitting the access road on the D, well you all should lash me repeatedly with my 570 Compact Skagit. Please.

    BUT - here is the real question. Put me with my 13' 8/9 and a hunk of t-14 with a lead eyed stinger on the end, and plunk me on the Sandy in March at 4,000 CFS. Put one of your "old school" guys next to me with a 16' rod and a long belly line. Who will catch fish? I don't know the answer.

    And by the way, I don't think I am even old enough to be called a "yuppie".
     
  9. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    Ha, I like this guy already. :thumb:
     
  10. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    My money is on the old guy of which I am one but I also fish a short line and another BUT if you pay attention you to should catch fish.:p
     
  11. CharleyKehwa

    CharleyKehwa Member

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    IMHO you shouldn't be judging other anglers on how much their gear costs, how long they've been at the sport, if they have the traditional rod and line, what they drive etc...
    You SHOULD be looking at how they treat the river when they fish, and what they do to give back to the resource.
     
  12. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    shit..this sucks...I don't own a saab but a toyota truck is close...Shit...I smoke cigars too...shit...I am head to toe simms pretty much....Shit...I got a nice rod and expensive reel...shit...I do catch fish with it though...sometimes...I mean it's steelheading right..I can't afford the TIME OFF to go up to the skeena and have 60 fish months...SHIT..I wish I did??

    Ok, You can all laugh at me..but I don't leak now..for the most part...I have come around after preaching the short rod and been scolded...Big rivers suck with short guns..BUT when the wind blows on my mighty - I sure don't mind that little line shooting through it...and you can laugh as I sold off some of my reels so I could get a saracione...shit..if nothing else I enjoy looking at it during the droughts of fishlessness....and when you do get one..boy does it sing a pretty song...

    Ok, here you go...laugh away...I deserve it...I promise if you see me and come up I won't be a snob, will probably offer you a cigar and try not to cough on your boots..Promise...

    Just an old guy having fun...Oh and you know your getting old when you realize that the days of woman or steelhead don't matter anymore...No lady no matter how beautiful can take the place of a big wild steelhead...That's OLD!!!
     
  13. _WW_

    _WW_ Geriatric Skagit Swinger

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    I don't know what I am.
    Nice pic Golf...Shame about the big T
     
  14. HauntedByWaters

    HauntedByWaters Active Member

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    Well said bro!
     
  15. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    I don't know about that last statement.:hmmm: Maybe I am not as old as you. But my eyes still follow a nice pooper or rack even while on the river.:cool: