Gangs in rural Grant County?

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by casaboba, Apr 11, 2011.

  1. _WW_

    _WW_ Fishes with Wolves

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    Comparing "gang activity' and the current crop of highly addictive drugs to prohibition is a very bad analogy and quite a stretch. It is the very addictive nature of these substances that make it all possible because it creates such an insatiable demand. If you legalize it, and the production of it, you will have done nothing but give these cartels another source of supply. They will in fact outcompete our government for the customers by selling the government product at a cheaper cost. Essentially, the government will be subsidizing the very cartels they would like to erradicate.

    I can't believe any one wants to seriously consider legalizing meth.
    What are the medicinal benefits of meth?
    What is the best age to get your kids started on legalized meth?
     
  2. Chris Johnson

    Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

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    Don't worry It won't happen, not in my lifetime. Maybe pot will be legalized, but that's about as far as I see it going.
     
  3. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

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    These are excellent points. And I agree with Chris Johnson that, at most, we'll see pot legalized. The highly addictive hard stuff needs to be dealt with some other way (though what that "way" is, I have no idea).
     
  4. Chloe's DAD

    Chloe's DAD New Member

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    i'm not saying these punks are not going to mess with a flyfisherman but when a man buys a a 40 to 80,000 dolar car or truck has his drift boat or float tube and you brand new winston or bamboo rod and u take a child for his fishing trip of the year and seas these punks at the park or ramp and u take off and fish and your truck gets broke in into or he jumps you for your winston or hold you at gunpoint and you are not packing what do u do the police are 90 miles away but if your protecting yourself u have a chance to keep your shit that u worked so hard for!!!!!!
     
  5. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

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  6. Alex MacDonald

    Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

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    Having finally read the "wolf/sheep" thing, as a Medieval historian I can tell you that the statement about this possibly being the most violent time in history is a total crock. That period between the fall of the Roman empire and the rise of the Carolingian empire; the time we refer to as the "dark ages" was a great deal more violent and lawless. We aren't bad off here, but the press needs to sell papers, so they sensationalize whatever they can, nothing new there! Many of my colleagues have claimed that the Roman gladius has killed more people than all the wars since. I don't know how they can back up that statement, but I'm not willing to dismiss it.
     
  7. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    Kinda' going off track a bit here, but when I suggest legalizing drugs as a means of undermining cartels, it's certainly not meant as legalizing all crimes to eliminate crime. The War on Drugs has been going on for over 40 years that I've seen and been a complete and total failure. One might say, OK, you've had your turn, now let's try an alternative and see if it does better. It can't do any worse.

    Take meth; it would most likely disappear from use and therefore manufacture. Why, you might reasonably ask. Because if common narcotic drugs were legal, you could buy a daily hit of pharmacutical grade heroin from the drugstore for $1. Yeah, a $100 a day habit would become a dollar a day habit, for those inclined, probably absorbing the vast majority of meth heads because they'd get a better recreational drug for even less money than their meth habit. (Note: I'm not recommending drug use, but simply acknowledge that a percent of our population will seek out and use drugs no matter what laws we have.)

    Because these drugs are actually quite cheap to produce and sell if it were legally allowed, the huge profit potential that attracts and creates things like drug cartels would cease to exist. Since drug cartels do exist, they, along with the DEA, LE opposed to drugs, and conservatives who are hell bent on trying to control (and failing miserably) the social behaviors they don't approve of, lead the charge against legalizing drugs. The cartels and well-meaning, but wrong-headed, folks are in it together unfortunately. Cartels would of economic necessity move on to whatever the next highest profit business that is vulnerable to their business model, securities trading probably (t.i.c.).

    Anyway, legalizing pot, meth, heroin, and other similar drugs all but eliminates the majority of the criminal activity associated with them. Murder, assault, robbery, even home burglaries would decline as the need to raise large amounts of money to purchase illegal drugs almost, but not quite, goes away.

    One post asks if a drug user can be a functional member of society, hold a job, pay taxes, etc. Although it's not the norm, there have been numerous instances over the years of functional heroin addicts. Generally it doesn't work out in the long term due as much to the high cost of heroin and varying and inconsistent quality of street heroin as to the effects of the drug on some users. As for the societal outcome, look to the Netherlands. Although certain streets of Amsterdam are replete with junkies, the overall rate of heroin use has declined since they stopped prosecuting drug use. There's a logical explanation for that too, but that involves going even further off topic.

    Sg
     
  8. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    Hunh? Might want to look into what the drugs do. Kinda like saying if blood pressure medicine suddenly became dirt cheap noone would buy cholesterol medicine.
     
  9. orangeradish

    orangeradish 1/2 an Ira

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  10. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    Yeah, I guess the quality of a recreational drug experience is in the eye of the beholder. Probably a poor assumption on my part. Still, legal meth, like heroin, could be had super cheap compared to street prices, which is more central to my point that legalizing drugs would all but put drug cartels out of business, at least the illicit drug trade.

    Sg
     
  11. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    Let's just put it this way. If the drug market worked as you suggest, nobody would do anything but alcohol and Pot. Cheap, easy to get. Look at cigarettes. They're legal. Why is there a black market? To avoid taxes. I don't smoke so I don't know how many cigarettes in a pack, or how many packs in a carton, but I read that the taxes on a carton of cigarettes is over $30! The taxes! Don't you think the taxes on drugs would be higher than the taxes on cigarettes? You really think the cartels would go away? It's kind of childish to think so.
     
  12. Jeff

    Jeff Member

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    What cigarette black market do you speak of? Didn't realize this was happening in any meaningful way.

    -J
     
  13. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

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    I don't think the cigarette black market has gangs out and about in rural grant county boat launches.
     
  14. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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  15. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    Evan, my point is that there would taxation on legalized drugs. HUGE taxation. There would be a HUGE blackmarket. The cartels would run it, divert/hijack from legal outlets, kill mofos... You know. They'd TCB.