Hatchery Steelhead... yes or no?

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by Panhandle, Jul 6, 2007.

  1. inland

    inland Active Member

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    James,

    The point being on me leaving out names is so maybe you will do some leg work yourself. Namedropping itself proves nothing either...you need to have the conversations with the people in charge. And then make up your mind of what you want to see.

    There are no wild steelhead left in Idaho. All mutts. Don't waste your time. Fishing sucks. ;) ;) ;)

    William
     
  2. Zen Piscator

    Zen Piscator Supporting wild steelhead, gravel to gravel.

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    The salmon river in idaho has some nice diversity going on... Mainstem clearwater spawners also eh? Fishing still sucks though...
     
  3. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    Something came to mind while scanning the steelhead gallery and Zen's endless brat pics. I here people supporting wild steelhead and dogging hatchery fish. There is a huge contadiction here though. Zen gets out a lot, a hell of alot more than most of us and he catches a butt load of fish. However 95% of those fish are brats. You can't really hate brats that much if you're spending the vast majority of your time fishing for them. I assume you're having fun--- right? Soooo..... you don't want to target Natives because of a conservational mentality, you don't have systems that hold native fish, you really like the taste of smoked steelhead, its cool to support native steelhead, your goal is to remove all the brats from the PNW for the sake of Natives etc...?

    Andy this isn't targeted directly at you, you're just the flagship for my point, and my point is-- For dogging hatchery fish so much you guys are sure getting alot of recreational bliss out of them, which is the purpose of hatchery programs. In other words, you are supporting hatchery fish :hmmm:
     
  4. James Mello

    James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

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    I do *plenty* of legwork myself, and in fact most of it comes from tips from people in the know. :) Hence having a resource that you consider an expert on the subject is extremely useful to me. Hell, even knowing where they work is a huge deal. Not all steelhead studies are done by regional biologists as it's a national issue.

    -- Cheers
    -- James
     
  5. James Mello

    James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

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    I suppose that in the end commercial catch is commercial catch. But for the sake of argument, we *really* can't do anything to control the tribes, especially the "self-regulated" ones (Quinault and Yakima, read about it, also in the Boldt decision). So with that in mind, sure the tribes are selling those fish, and it is commercial, but for the rest of the state, you can't. I wished to hell this wasn't the case, but it is. So henceforth, in this discussion, we'll be talking about standard Washington residents....

    The language of the Boldt decision (which was based on a case of whether of codifying what the Stevens treaty meant)....

    There are lots of case law precendents cited in the Bold decision. Here are the two that standout and substantiate those claims...

    Futhermore later in the Boldt decision, the specific definition of accustomed hunting and fishing grounds are codified as to where each tribe can fish.

    For example...

    As for bycatch, the RCW of Washington and Game regs strictly state that no retention of steelhead may occur by a non-tribal commercial fisherman. All by catch has to go back in the water. There is some reference that I was told about that a steelhead is a "gamefish" for the state of Washington rather than a "sportfish" and as such has different rules on commercial harvest.

    -- Cheers
    -- James