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How wolves change rivers....

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3K views 50 replies 25 participants last post by  pigburner 
#1 ·
Some interesting claims made in this clip. I know there are a lot of varying opinions of how wolf management has impacted various regions, and I am curious as to what others think about this.
 
#3 ·
Interesting, never really thought about that. Another benefit of having the wolf's back is the health of the remaining herds is better. They cull the weaker, sick.
You won't hear any of the elk hunters pointing that out. They like to take the best of the gene pool for trophies. I have no problem with hunting. It just seams kind of stupid to kill your best breeders. Watched a hunt in Europe. Red stag I believe. The guide (you have to have one) picked your animal. If you were really lucky, you got to shoot a old bull. Past his prime. Otherwise it was whatever he thought the herd needed the least.

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#4 ·
In the mid-1980s Alston Chase's Book "Playing God in Yellowstone..." created a stir. In it he talks at length at some of the National Parks policies and decisions that effected the natural ecosystems of places like Yellowstone. While he had some obvious biases he discusses in detail the changes that occurred within the Parks' ecosystem with the elimination of the wolves. If one is interested in such things the book is a good (though long) read.

What is really surprising and interesting is how quickly the ecosystem has responded to the re-introduction of wolves. The wolves have been back in the Park for less than 20 years but as the video points out many of the impacts from the elimination of wolves some 70 years earlier are in the process of being reversed.

Curt
 
#10 ·
The biggest issue with the Yellowstone rivers is the lack of cutthroat thst move out of the lake to spawn- bucket biologists put mackinaw in the lake and the cutties are getting wiped out.
Read an article recently making the claim that the cutthroat, not the wolves, are the true keystone species for Yellowstone

The loss of the massive trout spawning runs has severely impacted the bears, the birds etc
 
#23 ·
The video is describing an example of the keystone species hypothesis developed by Robert Paine, a zoology professor at the University of Washington (http://www.washington.edu/research/pathbreakers/1969g.html). If I recall, his work on the beach involved removing the starfish from a section of beach every week for a couple of years (he'd toss them out in the waves or nearby or something). The section of beach without the starfish changed in that short time from the typical diversity of life to a monoculture of mussels. Without the starfish to keep the mussels in check, they took over everything. Really quite interesting work, and there are a lot of examples how removing one species has ripple effects up and down the food chain.
 
#31 ·
After watching that, I'm convinced that reintroduction of wolves into Bellingham, Sedro-Woolley, Arlington, Monroe, Seattle and Tacoma should become a key component of any Puget Sound wild steelhead recovery plans.
 
#37 ·
It's not like there was once a 'climax ecosystem' where the 'natural order' of nature was static. It has always been a churning mass of change...new experiments by nature to see what survives.

The planet, and 'nature' will do quite fine (up to supernova anyway), though of mankind, perhaps the same won't be said...if anyone remains to do the 'saying'. It's highly possible we're merely a 'dead-end' and not suited for long-term survival. A brief visit to Walmart strongly supports such a view.
 
#40 ·
It's not like there was once a 'climax ecosystem' where the 'natural order' of nature was static. It has always been a churning mass of change...new experiments by nature to see what survives.

The planet, and 'nature' will do quite fine (up to supernova anyway), though of mankind, perhaps the same won't be said...if anyone remains to do the 'saying'. It's highly possible we're merely a 'dead-end' and not suited for long-term survival. A brief visit to Walmart strongly supports such a view.
Sad but likely true. P.S. Walmart scares the hell outta me.

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#41 ·
The wife was yelling at me that the yard had gone wild. I guess there is a link to all the wolves that pass through at night. I have read many reports over the years about the destruction of the balance of the ecosystem by the re-introduction of wolves in Yellowstone but darned if I have been able to find research on the effects on the ecosystem from overgrazing cattle and sheep on federal lands that used to be home of the wolves, elk and bears.
 
#42 ·
Ecosystem balance is a bit more complex than most realize:

Without wolves and other large predators, ecosystems can go haywire. A 2001 study found that when wolves went extinct in Yellowstone, for example, the moose population ballooned to five times its normal size and demolished woody vegetation where birds nested. As a result, several bird species were eliminated in the park.

Scavengers thrive when wolves are around. The species that help themselves to wolves' leftovers include ravens, magpies, wolverines, bald eagles, golden eagles, three weasel species, mink, lynx, cougar, grizzly bear, chickadees, masked shrew, great gray owl, and more than 445 species of beetle.

Wolf kills are also good for the soil. A 2009 study in Michigan's Isle Royale National Park found that wolf-killed elk carcasses dramatically enhanced levels of nitrogen and other nutrients.

Wolf kills feed more animals than hunting by humans, since wolves scatter their carrion over the landscape. Wolf kills benefit three times more species than human hunting kills.

When wolves disappeared from Yellowstone, coyotes preyed on pronghorn almost to the point of no return. But since wolves have returned, the pronghorn have come back. In fact, pronghorns tend to give birth near wolf dens, since coyotes steer clear of those areas.

Deer and elk congregate in smaller groups when wolves are around. This helps reduce the transmission of illnesses like Chronic Wasting Disease.

Wolves help protect against climate change. A 2005 UC Berkeley study in Yellowstone concluded that milder winters, a product of climate change, have led to fewer elk deaths. This left scavengers like coyotes and ravens scrambling for food, but the problem was far less pervasive in areas where wolves were around to hunt elk.
 
#44 ·
But the other wild animals don't kill like the wolves do. The wolves kill sheep for the fun of it.. They've been known to just go through the sheep like a buzz saw through wood.
And? Let's see. Wolves live naturally in the mountains. Government allows people to graze their sheep on same land in the mountains. Wolves kill sheep. Don't see the problem. Either get a better sheepherder or get the sheep out of the mountains. Same goes for the bears and mountain lions. Should we get rid of all of the predators because they are doing what they are supposed to do in their natural territory? I for one get a little bummed out when I am out in the mountains and I see a heard of cows coming out of the trees, overgrazing and trampling the stream banks. Just last weekend I was over at Many Glacier in Glacier National Park and a herd of cows was down at the river below Sherborne Lake. Now, have a grizzly come out and kill one of those cows and the rancher is going to go crying to the public about why the grizzly should be eliminated. We encroach on their territory and then complain about their presence. If I go hiking in bear country and get killed by a bear, then it is what it is. I am accountable for my choices. Same for people who graze their animals in the wilderness.
 
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