I'm curious... about some views...

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Scott, Oct 30, 2002.

  1. o mykiss

    o mykiss Active Member

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    Damn. The attitude that has been pervading this site for some time (with Rainbow as the poor, unfortunate but regular target), and which prompted the original post on this thread, had been inspiring me to write the next great flyfishing novel, which was going to somehow cast a spotlight on the hypocrisy of the suburban dwelling, lawn-fertilizing, SUV driving, big-box store frequenting, meat-eating "uber-C&R" flyfisherman. I had sketched out scenes of Mr. Uber-C&R, an executive of a local utility that owned hydro dams and coal-burning power plants, leveling a small forest next to a pristine stream to build his McMansion using old growth timber, or driving his Ford Excursion -- with the license plate "Catch & Release Wild Trout" - across a stream filled salmon redds. You guys have all done such a good job writing about it here that I have no novel left to write. Guess it's back to my day job.
     
  2. topflight121

    topflight121 Josh Pearson

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    Holy Crap.... I feel like I need to go hug a tree... or maybe just cut it down with my chainsaw. I C&R so i can catch hopefully bigger fish, or at least continue to use the resource.
    I really don't care that the person making my waders get paid 50 cents an hour or day. The fact is, their economy supports their life at that price. Adding american "values and ethics" to the world does nothing but make us look like the ugly american.
    If it makes people feel better I can take my shotgun and get a rabbit or pheasant and then tie my flies. Therefore the poor creatures wouldn't have to be kept in a little box or however they are raised
     
  3. Whitey

    Whitey Active Member

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    Hello all, back from the dead. Great posts from everyone. Thanks for saying it Scott. :THUMBSUP YT
     
  4. YAKIMA

    YAKIMA AKA: Gregory Mine

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    I think this post was fantastic... I'm not the type to get onto band wagons and preach to the crowd, however, you have some incredibly interesting points. I look at it from this angle as well. Do you see many hunters practicing catch and release ? Most bait fishermen don't, or can't due to the damage caused by treble hooks or the depth the hook goes into the fishes stomach. Now I'm not trashing or pointing at hunters, or bait fishermen one bit. So please everyone, don't go off on me for saying those things. That is ther choice as we have chosen one as well. Is one better that the other? I say no. All I'm saying is AT LEAST we give them a chance. Yes, we all use materials that some creature gave his life for. How's your leather couch, or car interior? How about your baseball mit or golf glove? Almost every team sport uses a ball that has some type of hide used for the cover. Is it due to the food chain, superior beings, alien implants, or just the choices in life that we make to use materials that some animal gave its life for? I think i'm going to go play with my dog...
     
  5. Brad Niemeyer

    Brad Niemeyer Old School Member

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    Homer Simpson goes fly fishing!

    If you want to see all sides of the issue just wait till Homer Simpson goes fly fishing:

    Lisa will be in a full bore moral tizzy
    Marge will feel for the fish and question Homer's motivation
    Bart will be foul hooking everything with fins
    Maggie will probably fall in the river
    Moe will be selling salmon eggs at the tackle shop
    Mr Byrnes will be poisoning the river with nuclear sludge
    Ned Flanders will be burning in hell for poorly handling a fish
    And Otto will certainly post those gruesome squeeze and suffocate pix on the springfield fishing website

    enough said?

    PS. Starring "Blinkie the one eyed trout" Voice by Ben Afleck :CLOWN
     
  6. Roper

    Roper Idiot Savant

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    My view

    Fly fishing, in fact fishing in any form and it's participants are a microcosm of our society in general. We all have the same issues we struggle with in the rest of our live. Bias, discrimination, waste, egotism, arrogance, rude behavior, disregard for laws, etc.
    None of us are saint, some are certainly sinners. Should we continue our self-righteous grousing about others, NO.
    Fishing, from my knothole is an art. Practiced often enough, it transports me to a zen-like world where I'm detached from the bulls--t that surrounds me. I often spend hours that seem like only minutes after they pass. To take the time to pick apart someone elses practice of this art in assinine.
    I come here to learn more, to share experiences, and broaden my appreciation for the sport.
    I welcome others views and insights that make me think. I don't welcome their insults and judgements.
     
  7. DEREK

    DEREK New Member

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    Homer Simpson goes fly fishing!

    It's not good to laugh so loud while sitting in a busy office cubicle. Now THAT was the funniest thing I've read on this sight.
     
  8. pwoens

    pwoens Active Member

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    Alright Whitey get off your whitey whiney wagon and get a grip man!! I have enjoyed all of your posts and do not have any problems interpreting your saracasm and fun filled computer lyrics. Who cares what other people say to you, your a grown boy and should be able to handle these adolescent emails that are threatening to extinct whitey from washingtonflyfishing.com. Stand up for yourself. Use your abalones or whatever they are called.

    I was kind of curious where you and your partner went to lately?? Seriously though, dont let it get to you. We need you to help keep this forum in line :WINK .

    ~Patrick
     
  9. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

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    What do I know---I'm just an old man

    Well I guess that I will add my .02 cents worth. Of the rabbits that get killed for flies and the chickens for their feathers. You sound like you belong to PETA. And as for all of the vegetarians out there that have leather shoes and belts. And just what does all this have to do with fly fishing. This is a good site for info on this sport. It looks like from this post that you all want to get away from fishing and go somewhere else with this site. I think that if nobody answered you that maybe you will go away.

    Jim :MAD
     
  10. XstreamAngler

    XstreamAngler ...has several mistresses.

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    My view

    This is dedicated to those who rock hard! Hey look! I found a few more pennies, so two more cents from me! I agree with ALL here! Where is the love gang! I am glad we all take the time to express our personal thoughts, that is what makes us individuals! I respect EACH and EVERY one of ya'll, your beliefs, thoughts and theories, that is what sets everybody apart from each other! What I do, how I do it, what I drink, when I drink is all a part of me, I am not going to change it for anybody and I don't expect anybody to change for me! I fish, love to fish, eat meat, wear leather, donate to PETA, PAWS, DU, TU and the WSP (not by choice!) WHO CARES!!!! Take care of what you love, and what you love will take care of you! That's all! We all have our own ideas of what is right, as I said before! As a young bait chucker, an old man told me "Jackass, Never pass a good opportunity to keep your mouth shut"! Now, as an Older Jackass that toss's flies, I believe in ME! So, let's all hug each other, get in a circle and hold hands! (I am soon to be the most hated I am sure)! Do I care?! NOPE! Cuz I is me!

    SAK
    Xstream! :DEVIL
     
  11. rainbow

    rainbow My name is Mark Oberg

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    Great Topic, The veiw's does come out a little closer to home here. People are relating to them self's insted of some poor sucker like me!
    Good job.
     
  12. Luv2Spey

    Luv2Spey Member

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    So, let's get rigorous! From my Websters, the following holds: To be ethical is to conform to a set of rules, where those rules define right and wrong. Rules that define right and wrong are called morals and violation of those rules constitute unethical/immoral behavior.

    Is catch-and-release (C&R) Unethical? Is catch-and-eat (C&E) unethical?

    C&R is clearly unethical if one believes that wildlife should be left alone, unless used as a food source. Under this definition of right and wrong, to put a fish at risk of death by catching and releasing it is unambigously immoral/unethical behavior.

    However, C&R is clearly ethical if one believes that conservation and enhancement of the natural resource is the greater good, i.e., worth the death of a few fish.

    C&E is clearly unethical, for example, if one believes that killing of animals for any reason is wrong.

    However, C&E is clearly ethical if one believes that the only justifiable reason for killing a fish is for food.

    I assert that no one point of view, of the ones cited above, has the claim to the ethical high road. To this end, I would admonish those of you who would make C&R vs C&E an ethical/moral debate. Framed as an ethical issue, the dispute can not be resolved - Neither absolute right nor absolute wrong exist.

    Framed as a conservation issue, the two sides can advance useful and informative arguments. Framed as a moral issue, the question becomes one of beliefs and is of interest only to the evangelical impulse in us.

    Speaking for myself, my personal preference is to favor activities that conserve and/or enhance the natural resource. I believe that C&R (w/ a healthy dose of Gloat) accomplishes this end better than C&E (but, see footnote). But my preference for C&R, and the assumptions upon which the preference is based, does not render C&E unethical or immoral.

    Cheers,

    Michael
    (Footnote) Ironically, without C&E we probably could not have C&R.
     
  13. MacRowdy

    MacRowdy Idaho Resident Craftsman/Artisan

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    Hey Jim, why ya gotta playa hate?

    MacRowdy
     
  14. pilchuck steelie

    pilchuck steelie Member

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    scott, excellent post, another way to view the question posed the other day about hunters/fishermen. the bottom line is that no one is morally superior because they don't kill something with their own 2 hands. nearly everything we do results in something being lost or altered, whether it's habitat, fish, game, etc. though we may think that our hands are clean of the blood of fish/game because we practice c&r, or photography. somewhere along the way a price was paid, there was a cost. as for hunters not practicing c&r, as someone opined, i disagree. hunters practice c&r evertime the decide not to pull the trigger, release the arrow.
     
  15. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

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    What do I know---I'm just an old man

    Mac, Freedom of speech in America.