in search of a perfect loop

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by yuhina, Dec 17, 2011.

  1. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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    http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/board/showthread.php?82119-Tight-loops

    Hi All,

    In the previous post about tight loops, there are quite a lot of discussions about how to make a tight loop, there are some good suggestions. However, there are more than one way to get a tight loop, above thread has mentioned one traditional straight rod path principle. Here I want to illustrate and hopefully get some opinions about the second type of tight loop...see videos below... discuss away if you will... but please keep in mind personal attack is not allowed in this board and this thread. Just kindly remind you please respect others if you want to jump in. Thanks,:thumb: Mark

    The traditional tight loop: (2:30 sec)




    The new concept of tight loop: (0:45 sec)
     
  2. Joe Smolt

    Joe Smolt Member

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    I don't quite get where you are going here. In Ed Ward's video, he states that his videos are totally untricked to show pretty casting. He is chucking big flies. The top video looks like no fly or a very small fly. Showing those nice tight loops when you are chucking a big fly is still something I don't think I've mastered. So I look at these two videos showing one being in Hollywood vs the Hoh

    Joe
     
  3. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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    Hi Joe,

    I can't comment on the perfect loop cast (top one), because I rarely cast in this style. I use Ed's style. and I agree with you his style can chuck big fly and still maintain a good sharp loop. This doesn't mean that the top video (Chris) can't chuck a big fly with tight loop. Both casts has their places I guess...

    What I want to illustrate here is the different casting movement they are using. If look closer, Ed's rod tip never form a straight line path as traditional casting instruction suggested. His rod tip actually is quite circular around and use a lot of rotation movement.

    Mark
     
  4. Brady Burmeister

    Brady Burmeister Active Member

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    I don't see it this way. A very straight line sweep, a straight 45 thrust to begin d loop, a straight line forward cast towards target. Once again, I'm left puzzled with your aim here.
     
  5. Joe Smolt

    Joe Smolt Member

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    I'm no jedi caster, so I really can't speak to the detail level of casting. Ed talks about a sustained water anchor. His video shows a style I've never seen before where he is essentially dumping the line all around him so that he is maximizing the anchor and the load on the rod. That is immaterial with regards to the anchor which probably relates to the last casting motion.

    To me, a spey rod is a very efficient tool for casting big flies all day. Ed's video emphasizes minimizing effort, keeping the motion of the hands is very compact. So I suspect his style reflects economy of effort rather than being pretty. That circular aspect is reflecting little arm and shoulder motion vs first caster

    I often see that type of upward pointing loop with skagit casting when I am watching my fishing partner. I wonder how much the sustained anchor and having to rip sinking lines out of the water.

    Joe
     
  6. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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    No problem, Brady,

    We need different opinion! and I appreciate you point out yours.
    If you look closer to where Ed's rod tip stop, it will give you some idea.
    I cast in his style, so I know it is very round and curve and stop low... but this is just my experience.

    Mark
     
  7. yuhina

    yuhina Tropical member

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    Joe, great observation and I think you got the very important point. The less effort and better efficiency is centered in his style. The circular motion is the key element in all his casts. Great input! Joe
    Mark


    see clip on the time frame - 0:16 sec ; 0:29 sec ; 0:36 sec for the circular forward stroke

     
  8. Joe Smolt

    Joe Smolt Member

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    I should clarify my mumbling. Eds casting style reminds me of someone fishing. The first video looks like someone casting. In Eds video I see him dropping the tip soon. I do this, for some reason, when I am casting short. My casting style for a floating line is very different than with a skagit line. For a floating line, I will stop high and achieve tight loops (usually smaller lighter flies). For a skagit line, I feel I sometimes stop lower. I know my loops are generally wider when casting a skagit line. I don't know if it is the mechanics of the line and what is involved with what I feel is a lot more to load the rod and a lot more to pull out of the water. Its the difference between a touch a go cast vs a sustained anchor, a big ass fly, and a sink tip that must be pulled out of the water.

    Joe
     
  9. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    Honestly, who cares about tight loops when casting short heads and big flies? All I care about is mechanics in terms of getting the fly out and fishing. I have no idea how pretty it is; its probably pretty nasty, but I can cast the hell out of it and catch fish. Longer lines? I care a little more, but not much. I'm a fisherman not a caster. I don't spend time on ponds analyzing my cast or really try to achieve anything other than: anchor, D, go, mend, pull, fish to bank. We all have different styles, which is what makes it interesting and unique. I'm just not really interested in being a pretty, great caster. I am interested in being a very good steelheader.
     
  10. fisshman26

    fisshman26 Member

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    Better casting leads to better fishing!
     
  11. Sean Beauchamp

    Sean Beauchamp Heavies...

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    Casting well and fishing well do go hand in hand. Especially with short heads IMHO. I'm interesting in improving my casting technique because I think it will help me catch more fish. Tight loops will cut the wind better as well as slide under overhangs better. Better turnover makes for a more effective mend. And with a short head on a longer cast in challenging currents you are only get one mend to set up your swing or none even. The better you can tackle challenging scenarios the more potentially untouched water opens up for you. with as many people and as few fish as there are I will take any advantage I can get.

    That's the short of it anyway.
     
  12. fisshman26

    fisshman26 Member

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    The long of it can be said as well! (ie same for long lines)
     
  13. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    I think Poppy says it best, "it doesn't matter how you get it out there, as long as you get it out there." Or something like that. What I'm saying is, I don't obsess about how it looks fundementally, as long as it fishes. In other words, I know guys who are great casters but poor steelheaders, and decent casters who are fishy freaks. A pretty cast doesn't catch fish. What you do after the line hits the water does. Sorry, Mark, not trying to hijack or discount your other points made here.
     
  14. fisshman26

    fisshman26 Member

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    If you can cast properly you dont have to do anything after the fly lands just hold on!
    Sean already brought up most of the points of why good casting is important.
     
  15. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    Really? So if you're a good enough caster with tight enough loops you don't even have to know how to fish? Oh God, what am I getting myself into?