Intermediate lines!

Discussion in 'Stillwater' started by WA-Fly, Oct 21, 2012.

  1. dibling

    dibling Active Member

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    Reviving an old thread for the annual Xmas wish list. What brands do you prefer for clear intermediate lines for west side lakes and how fast of a sink rate should I look for? My 2013 resolution will be to improve my lake game.
     
  2. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    I've used both the Scientific Angler and Cortland intermediate sinking lines. I prefer the Cortland because it doesn't seem to kink up on the reel as does the SA. If I was going to buy a line today it would be the

    Cortland 444 Camo Intermediate Fly Line
     
    Mark Kraniger and dibling like this.
  3. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    Here is a question I cannot answer, maybe you can.

    The lines I use the most are my Courtland 444 Slime Line, and a SA Type II Uniform Sink. A few months ago I was stretching my slime line and it snapped about 12' back from the head. Obviously the line was gone, but until I found another I took it down to Kiene's and had a loop welded on the remaining line after the break.

    I took it out the next day and was shocked. I got about another 15' of distance out of it. It seemed to fish better and was more sensitive. It's totally improved with 12' of head gone.

    Why?
     
  4. zen leecher aka bill w

    zen leecher aka bill w born to work, forced to fish

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    The short answer is it's now a heavier line as the first 12' of taper is missing.
     
  5. Drifter

    Drifter Active Member

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    Very interesting!
     
  6. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    Looking at the line profile I would think it would be lighter with the WF tip gone?

    However, that is the only answer I could gin up too, even though it makes no sense to me that the line would be heavier. I've learned to over line anything Sage, even though this rod is a Z-Axis which is slower than the RPLs. I prefer to use my 6 wt. sinkers on my 4 wt. RPL when appropriate. The only lines I've found that should match the rod wt. are the Rio Outbounds as they are already over grained.

    Update: I looked at the profile again, and you're right--about half the line gone was a taper, not the body. I wonder if there's anything detrimental about losing that?
     
  7. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    Yup.

    Obviously the designer of the fly line needs to snip off the last 12' of their lines to make a better product. :)
     
  8. mbowers

    mbowers Active Member

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    Can you please check again to see if you really lost head weight? Do you still have the 12 foot section to weigh and compare to the weight of the 18-30 foot section of the "new" line. This link http://www.cortlandline.com/products/default.asp?id=99 shows 6 in and 6 feet as the level plus front taper and then the next 5.5 feet would be main body if you lost 12 feet for reference. Is that the same taper as your line. Front taper can still be thicker (heavier) than the running line even if it's not as thick (heavy) as the main body of the line. Any taper lost that's thicker than the running line makes a lighter head and the running line is usually the thinnest part of a WF line as far as I know.

    IMHO the line got lighter and the rod got back to its sweet spot. Personally I despise over lining Sage :) unless it's for exclusively short work (usually nymphing some flowing water or pounding a popper under mangroves). Since stillwater is usually casting as far as I can, I stick with manufacturer's recommendation or even happily underline if the fly is heavily weighted (rod feels line weight + fly weight).

    One final comment on casting distance is the portion of the fly line you are shooting now has probably seen a lot less wear than the section you were shooting on before and is probably smoother so it shoots better.

    The main detrimental aspect of losing the taper is fly turnover and presentation. Unless you're throwing to visible fish that's probably not a big deal. If you could previously throw the line to within less than 12 feet of the backing then you are also that much short in your max casting / fishing distance. :)
     
  9. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    MB, I wish I had the line but no. Actually I looked at a similar line, not the one you brought up which is the correct one. I have to flip back to my original thought because it does look like I lost some weight.

    I overline because there is less line out with more grains per foot for the false cast and I can shoot further with a heavier line on a fast rod. If I am using a mid flex then that's not the case. I have tried underlining and it just doesn't work. I am not even close to a 100' cast with any of my sinking lines except for my Rio OBS which is overweight from the factory, and that one I can get pretty close, at least 85' on a good one. I'm lucky to get 60' out with my other sinkers from a pontoon or float tube which is nearly only when I use them, but that's partially attributable to a two fly rig with a big bugger and long leader I think.
     
  10. zen leecher aka bill w

    zen leecher aka bill w born to work, forced to fish

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    A slightly less shorter answer is the first 30 feet of the fly line is heavier as the tapered tip is missing. You have the trout equivalent of a bass bug line which is a "club" tip to help turn over bulky bass poppers/flies. This is why your line feels like its casting better.
     
  11. mbowers

    mbowers Active Member

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    I agree that the STYLE of the taper is now bass bug style but I still maintain the total WEIGHT of the head is down. If the line was originally a WF 6wt it's now a Bass Bug 4wt which would cast better for me on a 4wt.

    LCnSac: I see why you overline if fishing from the tube. I'm almost always standing and often elevated a few feet off the water so I can more easily keep more line in the air. If I overline the rod it gets very sluggish and there's no power left in the rod to haul hard and shoot. I will overline a 10ft 3wt with a 4wt line mostly because the 3wt line selection is generally poor, but I definitely avoid overlining a 9ft rod.
     
  12. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    OK, I am getting this. But, by extension, why would I not get a line profile and cut out the taper to my other sinkers if that improves the distance which it definitely has? I don't think I care about presentation with sinkers--I almost always have the two fly rig with a bugger/leech and a point nymph.
     
  13. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    I don't worry about making a fancy cast with my slime line either. I'm normally using a 15-20 leader with two patterns so I don't cast much. Once in awhile I'll find a honey spot where I can remain stationary and cast around me but normally, long casts are not required when I'm in my small pontoon boat.

    Fishing with my dry line is a different story.
     
  14. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    It depends. If you're fishing for recently planted trout, your best bet is a fast strip. Real fast, as they will respond best to attractors. Most of the time I don't even use a point fly for them unless we're on the east slope where the lakes have a good insect population. The longer the cast, the more you're fishing. If you're targeting trout that have been around for awhile and have learned to feed, then distance becomes less important than retrieve and patterns.
     
  15. mbowers

    mbowers Active Member

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    The only reason not to is it's like drilling a hole in your boat: tough to go back. :)

    I just put numbers in a spreadsheet where I assumed 5 gr / ft for the body and 3 gr / ft for the level tip and also the running line. I used 4 gr / ft average weight for the front and back tapers (average of 5 and 3). I get 141.5 gr for the first 30.5 feet of the virgin line and 119.5 gr for the first 30.5 feet of the "new" and shorter line which is the equivalent of dropping from a 5wt to a 4wt line (I overestimated in the previous post. :) ) while changing the taper style from WF to Bass Bug.