I've never seen a guide do this before...

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by para_adams, Aug 22, 2014.

  1. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    Dang! That's funny! :)
     
  2. troutdopemagic

    troutdopemagic Active Member

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    As others have said its done pretty commonly since it slows the boat better then simply using oars. Also it lets the clients stay in the boat.
     
  3. Trapper Badovinac

    Trapper Badovinac Author, Writer, Photographer

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    Derek - I see your point and it's a very valid one with some anglers. Every time anglers got in my driftboat or raft I had to access their skill level. From never-ever newbies to well known fly fishing gurus, I adapted to what was happening on the river and their skill level instead of adhering to some rigid standard I set for myself.

    While I agree with your approach for experienced or even intermediate anglers, trying to explain ahead of time to a never-ever the nuances of reach casts, feeding lies, seams, micro-drag, etc is just going to further overwhelm an already overwhelmed newbie. Getting me out of the boat and holding it gives them the opportunity to make plenty of mistakes and then to finally improve.

    On fast moving water and newbies, what you're suggesting would be like teaching someone to shoot a rifle in the middle of a firefight.

    I rarely ever did the "row around" and if I did it was only one more pass through. Monopolizing a run or honey hole is a very poor lesson to teach.

    Trapper
     
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  4. hydrological

    hydrological beads are NOT flies and snagging is just ghetto

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    its called the circle jerk. becoming way too common with the new breed of guides. with many, it is really all they know. a good guide teaches, and if they want clients to have mulpitple chances to get it right, they get their clients out of the boat, and teach them how to make the presentation for themselves.
     
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  5. Blackbugger

    Blackbugger Active Member

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    This is a pretty common practice these days on a couple rivers. Especially the Jeff.
    I suppose it's because the fish are typically stacked in specific runs and the nature of the river with it's slower big sweeping bends and holes makes it possible to easily do laps.
    The guides, pretty much all of them, run their clients bobbers down the prime runs and then row back up to the top again, usually several times in the most productive holes.
    I see this a bit on the Beav as well when it's higher.

    Guides on the Henrys Fork in the Box routinely get out and walk the boat through runs, sometimes right in the middle of the river if it's not too high, kind of sketchy in that volcanic bed rock but I've watched them put their clients on multiple fish doing it.
     
  6. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    The bit about rowing back up a river to drift through a run again I've seen done once in Oregon on a steelhead river. It wasn't a guide and the practice really, really pissed off the guys fishing the run from shore.

    It's common to see a hog line of steelhead anglers just below a steelhead hatchery.

    One day I was fishing on the South Santiam and some dude in a drift boat would drift through the hog line water, then row back upstream and drift back down.

    The reason this pissed off those fishing the run is because there is very limited bank access to the South Santiam and a ton of water only available to those in a drift boat.

    As steelheaders are known to be a hostile lot, the guy was taking his life in his hands by dominating a run with a drift boat when he had miles and miles of river he could fish where there we no bank anglers.

    I've never seen anyone try the "circle jerk" bit on a trout river in Oregon.
     
  7. hydrological

    hydrological beads are NOT flies and snagging is just ghetto

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    worse yet, is the drift boat with a motor. had this happen several times on the umpqua. dudes casting right into the water i was swinging, of course. once, even after politely suggesting there was tons of water they could do that in that wasn't already occupied, these particular asshats mototred back up and went through several more times before i finally reeled up, flipped them the bird and left. unfortunately, hatchery steelhead, and harvest of them (and some places wild fish)really brings out the douchebags, the lowest forms of life i've ever seen. worse yet, these white trash scumbags are allowed to breed.
     
  8. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

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    Nothing wrong with a well placed weight on the end of your line. Sorry I was casting to the hole you were HOGGING.
     
  9. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    If they're also doing it on the Ump, then the practice is becoming popular.

    I try to avoid steelhead fishing rivers where drift boats are used. That's why I steelhead fish waaaaay up the Siletz where there are no drift boats and you can hike away from the crowds.

    There's already enough conflict between boaters and bank anglers without the circle jerk becoming common place.
     
  10. para_adams

    para_adams Active Member

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    Well, I surely did not mean to spark any controversy with my post and now wish I'd never put it up. That said, this comes from the FWIW bin, I do want to note that river was nearly empty of other fishermen that day with only one or two other rafts seen all day and maybe a half-dozen bank fishermen in the entire stretch we fished. I think the fishermen outnumbered the moose maybe 3 to 1, but not more. The water had risen a lot in the prior 24 hours and the fish were not responding well…I've fished a long time and while not an expert I think I know when I'm running a dry or nymphing rig on a good drag-free drift through prime water, and the fish were just not biting very well. In fact, we'd sometimes finally get a strike on the second or third time through a run, so I was very thankful for how hard the guide worked to give us the best shots at fish on what was my first (and who know, maybe only) trip to that beautiful river. If we'd been in the normal train of fly fishing drift boats on the Yak I would have cringed at the idea of re-fishing runs. On the Big Hole River on that day the thought never crossed my mind.
     
  11. Jerry Daschofsky

    Jerry Daschofsky Moderator Staff Member

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    I used to do it a LOT when I have my 16' Cataraft. Harder then hell to pull plugs with it. Would just want to run and run and run. So trying to track the boat was tough, let alone go slow to make plugs work correctly. I would get out and do same thing (or drop anchor and slowly release anchor line to do same thing).
     
  12. Jerry Daschofsky

    Jerry Daschofsky Moderator Staff Member

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    I should add. Rowing laps is DEFINITELY a common practice in the gear guiding world. I've seen this many a times. But guy will get out to pull boat back up stream (depending on current, they may row back up or use trolling motor to scoot drifter back up) and then re hit the slot again. I've never seen this fly fishing. My experiences have only been for gear. And for me, it wasn't to pull boat back up again. Usually if I'm in a boat, I take one shot at a run unless I"m on the bank fishing it. If I'm in a boat, I have the ability to cover more water then a bankie will. So don't like taking up a hole that long.
     
  13. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

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    Don't let the assholes get to you. You enjoyed your time on the Big Hole, and that's all that counts. I'm just sorry we couldn't get together. Maybe some other time.
     
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  14. para_adams

    para_adams Active Member

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    Thanks Jim. I was sorry that we didn't connect either. Thanks again for the tip on the beautiful stream 45 minutes away. One of the more beautiful places I've seen to catch cutts and a hoot to see all the Big Horn Sheep just hanging around the road. Ron
     
  15. silvercreek

    silvercreek Active Member

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    I am not a guide and it has been a loooonnnnggg time since I floated with a guide.

    From a wade fly fishers perspective, I see no problem with what the guide did. I think a guide can and should teach, he should prepare his clients for the coming structures that are going to be fished.

    But my opinion is that does not preclude the guide also doing what he did to help his client.

    I also have no problem with a guide rowing back up to fish a run again AS LONG AS there are no other boats that are about to enter the run. How is this different from a wading fly fisher fishing a run and then going back up stream to fish it again?

    As long a there is no other boat or fly fisher that is hindered by fishing the run again, what is the problem?

    How much "damage" can a guide walking a boat downstream do compared to a wade fisher that is in the river for hours? Clearly the intent of the guide was to slow the raft and not to "San Juan Shuffle" for his clients.

    If we are going to crucify this guide for a side effect of walking the raft downstream, how about crucifying ourselves for unintentionally killing 3-5% of the trout we catch and release?