Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by freestoneangler, Nov 8, 2011.
Did Joe Strummer enable a child molester?
I think we better leave Mr Strummer out of it as perhaps we are both big fans? : )
We'll avoid getting into that whole Judas Priest influence on young minds as I saw The Clash way back in 1979 at the Paramount and I think
it may have warped me a tad!
My ears are still ringing.....
I was a fan of Strummer, but I was smart enough not to idolize him. I'm careful about picking idols.
Reactions to the death of longtime Penn State coach Joe Paterno:
"He died as he lived. He fought hard until the end, stayed positive, thought only of others and constantly reminded everyone of how blessed his life had been. His ambitions were far-reaching, but he never believed he had to leave this Happy Valley to achieve them. He was a man devoted to his family, his university, his players and his community.'' - Paterno family.
"History will say that he's one of the greatest. Who's coached longer, who's coached better, who's won more games, who's been more successful than Joe? Who's done more for his university than Joe? You've lost one of the greatest. He probably means the same thing up there that Bear Bryant meant down here. He's an icon.'' - retired Florida State coach Bobby Bowden.
"The Penn State football program is one of college football's iconic programs because it was led by an icon in the coaching profession in Joe Paterno. ... To be following in his footsteps at Penn State is an honor.'' Penn State coach Bill O'Brien.
"You could have become a good football player at many places but you wouldn't have become the man you are if you didn't go to Penn State.'' - former Penn State running back Mike Guman.
"My first thoughts about Joe are not as a coach because he was well beyond that. He was an educator and a teacher. He taught lessons, some about football, mostly about life. He taught us how to treat others and how to conduct life. He did it with his life.'' - former Penn State linebacker Matt Millen.
"Whenever you recruited or played against Joe, you knew how he operated and that he always stood for the right things. Of course, his longevity over time and his impact on college football is remarkable. Anybody who knew Joe feels badly about the circumstances. I suspect the emotional turmoil of the last few weeks might have played into it.'' - Nebraska athletic director and former coach Tom Osborne.
"We came to Penn State as young kids and when we left there we were men and the reason for that was Joe Paterno.'' - Lydell Mitchell, a star running back at Penn State from 1968 to 1972.
"It's just sad because I think he died from other things than lung cancer. I don't think that the Penn State that he helped us to become and all the principles and values and things that he taught were carried out in the handling of his situation.'' - Mickey Shuler, a Penn State tight end from 1975 to 1977.
"His influence on me personally was a lot more far-reaching than the playing field. ... Coach Paterno should be remembered and revered for his 61 years of service to the Penn State community, the many games and championships he won, and the positive influence he was.'' - Jacksonville Jaguars linebacker Paul Posluszny, who played at Penn State linebacker from 2003 to 2006.
"I talked to him on his birthday (Dec. 21). He was a great man and a great friend. He lived by the rules. He made sure his players got good grades. He was about more than just football.'' - George Perles, who coached against Paterno at Michigan State.
"We grieve for the loss of Joe Paterno, a great man who made us a greater university. His dedication to ensuring his players were successful both on the field and in life is legendary and his commitment to education is unmatched.'' - Penn State board of trustees and university President Rodney Erickson.
"His legacy as the winningest coach in major college football and his generosity to Penn State as an institution and to his players, stand as monuments to his life. As both man and coach, Joe Paterno confronted adversities, both past and present, with grace and forbearance. His place in our state's history is secure.'' - Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Corbett.
"(During recruiting,) Paterno was the only coach that didn't talk about football. He talked about life and what life had to offer at State College. While I did not go there and went to Michigan State, he was the only coach to call me and wish me luck.'' - former Michigan State wide receiver Nigea Carter.
"I've coached around 300 college games and only once when I've met the other coach at midfield prior to the game have I asked a photographer to take a picture of me with the other coach. That happened in the Citrus Bowl after the `97 season when we were playing Penn State.'' - South Carolina coach Steve Spurrier.
"He was a tremendous teacher not because he knew all of the answers but because he challenged us to find the answers for ourselves. ... His spirit will live on in all of us who had the great honor of knowing him and running out of the tunnel with him on so many autumn Saturdays.'' - Paterno assistant and former Penn State interim head coach Tom Bradley.
"This is a sad day! ... Joe preached toughness, hard work and clean competition. Most importantly, he had the courage to practice what he preached. Nobody will be able to take away the memories we all shared of a great man, his family, and all the wonderful people who were a part of his life.'' - retired Penn State assistant coach Jerry Sandusky, who faces child sex abuse allegations, which he has denied, in the case that led to the firing of Paterno.
"When you think of college football and its tradition, you can't help but picture those dark glasses, black shoes and plain uniforms that were his style and mark on Penn State.'' - Texas Tech coach Tommy Tuberville.
"We came to football games just to see Joe Paterno on the sideline when we were students. He was the reason we attended so much.'' - Jamie Bloom, Penn State class of '92.
"Few people are responsible for building something that will last forever. ... Coach Paterno was first and foremost an educator, whose immeasurable contributions to Penn State, the coaching profession and the entirety of college sports, will be felt permanently. That is the legacy of a great leader.'' - Duke basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski.
"There could not have been a better experience than learning how to teach and coach the game than being around Joe Paterno and the Penn State program. Not only did I get a great education in the classrooms at Penn State, but I also learned lessons as part of the football program there that I continue to use today as part of my coaching career.'' - Connecticut coach Paul Pasqualoni, Penn State class of '72.
"I would tell people not to forget what that guy has done. To coach for 60 years in one place, that just won't ever happen again. I didn't get to coach against him. But I got to coach in the Big Ten, sit next to him at a meeting and have my picture taken with him. That's something I will never forget.'' - Minnesota coach Jerry Kill.
"I've known Coach Paterno since I started coaching. ... It's a very sad day, and with his passing, we have lost one of the greatest coaches our game, and all sports, will ever have. He leaves us with great stories, memories and records that may never be broken.'' - Texas coach Mack Brown.
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...th.ld.writethru.1540/index.html#ixzz1kFVULEnc
It's not just me singing the praises of this great man. It is too bad that Sandusky would even offer a statement.
I hear you. I went to school with a local kid who is now dead and idolized the world over and it is really spooky to see
the devoted to a chap who was quite miserable..
Back to thoughts about a peaceful stream full of something willing to bite the fly!
So what. Americans say and do lots of stupid stuff. This is the country that fawns over Paris Hilton and elected Dubya...twice.
I hesitate in saying it, but have a little class.
I have class when class is warranted. It is not warranted on this topic. We're talking f---ing football games versus actual innocent kids' lives.
Having said that, I'm probably triply sensitive to this martyrdom of Paterno because I'm an ex-catholic, father of three boys, and I think college athletics is a warped pseudo-business.
Understood Lugan. It certainly becomes tough for me to hold my toungue or my fingertips. Catholic coaches are a recipe for disaster. It isn't better if you have daughters, really.
Can't forget college sports do allow many inner city and underprivileged kids the ability to go to college and prosper and give back and a direction for youth while growing up with the hopes of staying in school for hopes of a scholarship.
I was a NCAA Div 1 college athlete (track-nothing glamorous or money making or even much pro potential besides european pro meets) and I saw first hand kids that would not have been in school without sports and it also enhanced my college life and it was work and not parties and it carried over to where I can coach and help youth.
Just trying to point out that there is more than a silver lining besides the obvious money making side to college sports and all businesses. Look at us here. Our love of flyfishing is a niche for folks to go pro as it puts food on the table for guides and game department folks and rod designers.
I guess I'm fed up with fallen idols and leaders, and what I see as our society's increasing willingness to forgive them for some unbelievably huge mis-steps.
Just this weekend Newt Gingrich won the South Carolina GOP primary, with a vote tally that included the largest share of evangelical votes. He achieved this despite having dumped two wives at the moment each was diagnosed with a serious illness, and carrying on an adulterous affair at the same time he was denouncing another fallen leader, Bill Clinton. I understand evangelicals' core belief in forgiveness, but Newt is so systematically flawed, that I just can't connect the christian belief in forgiveness of one-time sins with their support for Newt. He makes "mistakes" too regularly and he's too smart for it to be anything but calculated and the result of a deep character flaw. Then there's Dubya, Nixon, Blagojevich (and seemingly nearly every other governor of the state of Illinois). And that's just the tip of the iceberg in politics.
Back to sports, there's Barry Bonds, Marion Jones and the rest of the BALCO client list. That's just the tip of the iceberg of disappointing sports heroes. Go Nittany Lions!
Let's not forget our religious leaders starting with the catholic church which, right up to the top with Pope Ratzenberger, whose catholic church appears to exist in part to be an organized pedophilia ring. And lest we think that sort of overt moral failure is just a Roman issue, let's not forget the many home-grown bible thumpers like Ted Haggard and Jim Bakker whose personal conduct in comparison with rhetoric is a joke. Once again, these examples are the tip of the iceberg in religion.
In business, the length of the list rivals that of the politicians.
To whom great priviledge and honor is bestowed, great things are expected. This isn't a demand for perfection. No one is perfect. A small mis-step or two with small consequences is absolutely forgiveable. But that's not what we're talking about with Paterno or the many other systematically failed leaders and idols who appear to me to be failing us in increasing numbers and increasingly ball-faced ways. We just keep forgiving them for reasons that I can't fully comprehend. I'm just not falling for it ever again. I want accountability for high failures of responsibility.
I'm out. Time to get my son back to sleep, speaking of responsibility.
My last on this but you hit the nail on the head.
The greatest heroes, and it really is true IMHO, never get the press, they are the good parents and the people who sacrifice without
any notation and have gone without so their kids or someone's kids can eat. All this celebrity is total BS.
In keeping with the site, it is not the killer who takes home the giant Hoh river native and applies for a record, it is the fisherman who catches and releases a fish without
perhaps a picture or measurement.
Sometimes it's better to say nothing at the moment than go on ranting particularly mentioning despicable people whose personal lives that aren't comparable in the least. But from what you said above and before on this topic, you clearly don't know who Joe Paterno was and are completely judging his 60+ years of work on one unfortunate incident which he clearly admits fault and coming up short on his own ideals. Despite being a head football coach at a major University, he was an enigma in the college coaching ranks even in the mid-1960's when he became head coach, let alone today. Penn State clearly became one of the best University's in the country, public or otherwise, and it was because of Paterno not just being a football coach but one who had a much broader vision for the University and the kids attending it. For god sake, the University Library has his name on it not the football stadium. And not to besmirch any of the great coaches in college past and present, but I guarantee few of them ever even entered the library on their respective campuses and some would probably have to be escorted to find it. Sure Paterno's legacy will be tainted over the Sandusky affair(yeah that's the real criminals name as it's hardly ever mentioned in this whole sordid affair) but probably none of us on this forum will have more positive influence on others at the end of their lives than he did and it had very little to do with football.
True, Paterno wasn't the monster. And he did many great works in his career beyond football. I fully acknowledge those facts.
You and others seem to put his good deeds on one end of a scale, and his bad deed on the other end. You weigh the two sides and say that, on balance, he was more good than bad. I can see the logic in that.
But in my opinion his single bad deed was so awful and affected a number of innocent kids so deeply, that it becomes a trump card and I don't even do the good-vs-bad weighing calculation. He allowed a monster to prey on little boys for nearly a decade, and judging from his own comments to Sally Jenkins last week, he knew he should have done more. That doesn't put Paterno on the same level in criminal terms as Sandusky, but it does call into question his storied leadership and teaching powers. At the most testing moment of his 60+ year career, he failed to lead, and he taught his pupils that covering up for a buddy and preserving the status quo of the program was paramount. There are things that cross a line, and this was one of them. That seems obvious to me, and is the source of my (acknowledged) rant.
If he is absolved after an objective investigation, I will fall on my sword here and take it all back. But I don't think I'm going to need to do that.