Just build better biting steelhead

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by GAT, Apr 27, 2014.

  1. FinLuver

    FinLuver Active Member

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    Gene...did ya know the same guy who's in the article, Stan Steele, is also on the ODFW External Budget Committee??

    Makes ya go...Hmmmm?
     
  2. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    Well THAT'S a surprise.
     
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  3. FinLuver

    FinLuver Active Member

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  4. FinLuver

    FinLuver Active Member

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  5. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    I suppose if hatchery steelhead were easier to catch they may not end up spawning with wild steelhead but what if they do? What happens when one of the Frankenfish spawns with a wild steelhead? I don't know and neither do they.

    This is one of those plans that looks good on paper but someone is missing a problem that will only show up on down the road.

    I'm all for reducing the numbers of hatchery steelhead in wild steelhead rivers but I kind'a thought a better idea was to slowly stop planting the hatchery fish.

    Obviously, that ain't going to happen. Maybe folks aren't fishing as much as they once did because they're doing something else, not because the fish are too hard to catch. They must really believe if steelhead are easier to catch, more folks will buy fishing licenses and tags to catch them.

    The masses will most certainly give up playing computer games, updating their Face Book page, golfing and surfing The Internet to rush out and buy a fishing license once steelhead are easier to catch.

    No doubt about it.
     
  6. FinLuver

    FinLuver Active Member

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    Gas prices eat a ton outta the fishin' budget...
    (hmmm...seems I have read that before on the fishin forums ;))
     
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  7. _WW_

    _WW_ Fishes with Wolves

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    I was directed to this article:
    http://www.columbian.com/news/2014/apr/27/fish-story-breeding-back-bite/

    What a weird story. The guy claims all he can catch are wild fish, and yet they couldn't get 30 of them for their breeding program. This is what happens when people unfamiliar with fishing try to write about it. But let's suppose it works. With all these biting fish in the river being caught, which ones will make it back to the hatchery to be bred? The non-biters! :) Isn't that how we got here to begin with? In any case this will be hard to keep going if they can't catch 30 wild fish, which if their plan works will become the "non-biters" when they can't even catch them now when they are the best biters.
     
  8. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    No need for this. There is a new scientifically based approach that has just emerged "tinkering", that has all the promise of turning the fate of steelhead around coast to coast. Stay tuned for further details.
     
  9. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    FSA, you seem to have an issue with that phrase. Does it help any to include the whole quotation?

    "The first rule of intelligent tinkering is to save all the parts." Paul R. Ehrlich
     
  10. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    Nope. Tinkering with natural ecosystems is largely responsible for the situation we have now. Lots of "experts" with lots of opinions being influenced by lots of politics. String the multitude of studies and reports together and you have a bunch of mumbo-jumbo rife with conflicting data and conclusions.

    Those experts within the community of practice are free of any accountability...when was the last time anyone lost a job for not getting results? It may very well be that those charged with and being paid for solving the problem are the problem. While we're in the throws of dismantling the WA steelhead programs, perhaps an overhaul of the technical staffs and their management is in order (and I would include a few other of the agencies involved as well). This is how private industry manages ineffective results... to some, draconian I realize, but that's the difference between having to make the right decisions to stay in business as opposed to a seemingly never ending source of tax and grant money to keep the tinkering going.
     
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  11. Chris Johnson

    Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

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    F/a, while I agree with you that a lack of accountability is indeed a problem, privatization would be a disaster. Nature always seem to take a back seat to the profit motive.
     
  12. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    FSA,

    IMO society hasn't followed the rule of intelligent tinkering by choosing habitat degradation and destruction over saving all the parts. The effects of fisheries management by those in charge of managing fisheries is minimal in contrast to the effects on fish populations caused by the actions of society on the land and water scape overall. So you would fire all the fish managers, who have next to no authority to actually manage the base of fish production (habitat) because the results of fish management have failed in a mission that was impossible from the outset?

    Private industry could only have done better in managing fisheries if it also had the authority and jurisdiction to prevent the degradation and destruction and loss of the base of production, which is fish habitat, which even to this day is only semi-protected. Applying your concept to fish management would only ensure a constant turn-over in staff and personnel with no different outcome, or possibly an even worse outcome since you apparently don't get the connection between fish populations and the causal factors affecting absolute abundance.

    Sg
     
  13. jwg

    jwg Active Member

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    To my mind, one logical fallacy lies in the following claim
    " A growing body of evidence...."that hatchery fish bite less.
    Where is this body of objective evidence and how was it measured and what were the controls for all other variables?

    If I know fishermen two attributes stand out

    1. A highly selective memory for how good fishing was in the past , and
    2. A highly inventive mind for all the reasons they are not catching fish to meet their expectations in the present

    Jay
     
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