Just one big, happy family...

Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by livetofish, Sep 18, 2006.

  1. livetofish

    livetofish Fish to Live

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    "... headed out from Puge-opolis to the third rock down from the blahblah launch, (an area conveniently outed here earlier), and whaddya know... other boats and lots of fishermen" .... Composite quote taken loosely from a couple of posts in another thread with over 1000 views that I won't justify with a bump.:beathead:

    May I suggest an alternative report format, taken from my weekend outing:

    Fished an area 13 beach Saturday on the flood. Actually, returned with the boat to an area first scouted last year by foot. Relatively steep cobble beach near a point and a very small freshwater input, with some larger rocks and down timber. Lots of smallish (16-24 inch) resident fish and lots of action drifting with the current parallel to shore about 60-100 feet out and throwing purple over pink clousers back toward shore on a light sink tip. Saw one large school of mature cruising silvers, but no love from them. Most fish seemed to take between strips, so that if you waited until you felt them, it was too late. Hookups improved by keeping the fly shallow and watching for the take, setting by sight instead of by feel.​

    Hmmm... let's see... what did I forget... OH! I know! The name of the freakin' launch and the damn GPS coordinates! And the fact that we didn't see another soul out there!

    C'mon people, figure it out... techniques, tackle, tides, general areas, beach characteristics, etc. are all someone looking for info needs to help them catch fish, if they just provide a couple of things themselves... initiative and a sense of adventure. Specific locations DO, DO, DO lead to crowding and diminish the experience for all, especially those who actually do their own homework. Flame on.
     
  2. Shawn MD

    Shawn MD a.k.a. Riverfisher99

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    I have read all the "related" threads over the last day or so....

    Done a lot of thinking and mulling...

    Keep in mind I m a big time rookie.....but....iagree iagree iagree iagree .



    Shawn
     
  3. Mike Etgen

    Mike Etgen Not Quite A Luddite, But Can See One From Here

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    livetofish...

    You know, I've been coming onto this site for about three years now and I think perhaps I'm reading some different posts than the ones that set you off.

    Yes, once in a while someone will offer quite a bit of detail about the what, where, when, etc. of a succsssful outing. And sometimes, someone will respond to a fishing report with a request for inordinate amounts of detail. I think those kinds of post reflect the level of interest and enthusiasm you would have every reason to expect from someone new to the game. I don't think I've ever been guilty of offering too much, (because I know I don't know that much...) but I will say that I sometimes asked too much when I was a new member. Sometimes, I think I just wanted to be heard and acknowledged. Over time, though, I think I reached a sort of equilibrium, if you will, and now my questions are fewer and I also have been able to "read between the lines" a little better in order to gather the information I feel I need.

    Unfortunately, there's been a consistent undercurrent of resentment towards the individuals who ask (or offer) what the rest of the crowd feels is "too much." And that's what really needs to be called out, in my opinion. I think most of the folks who come in here as true newbies - new to the sport, or the area, or the species - just want a shot at a little success. That first jolt usually sets off the intiative and sense of adventure that will move them forward on their own.

    Watch and read the posts from the other knowledgable types who post to this site. They're patient, courteous, never condescending, and provide just enough guidance and detail to give someone a chance to go out with the expectation of some success. They "act like they've been there," to use a sports cliche.

    I do think you make a good point about over-exposure of truly good locations, and your concern is valid. I also agree that there are some folks who come in here looking for the sure thing. Fishing is one of those sports where there's still a mythical component, I think, and some folks still believe that there's ONE UNIVERSAL SECRET that the fishing gods reveal to a few true believers.

    My suggestion,if it's too hard on you to remain silent and recall that rookies make rookie mistakes, is try a personal response to them and courteously point it out. You'll likely make your point more effectively, maybe make a friend, and you may feel better, too, because you'll be using your wisdom to a good end. Then again, maybe you did just the right thing this time, because you got me thinking about it, and maybe some others will, too.

    I umpired a lot of amateur softball my younger years, from church leagues to highly competitive independent leagues. Over time, the players seemed to sort themselves out into three general groups:

    A. The casual players who knew their limitations and were just grateful to be out there having a good time.

    B. The decent players who though they were really good and needed a stage where they could prove that they coulda, shoulda. mighta, been a star "if only."

    C. The really good players, college baseballers, etc.

    Guess who gave me the problems?

    If the Group B players had demonstrated the class of the Group C players, even though they weren't that good, they'd have been "acting like they'd been there." We have the same choice here.

    Personally, I know I can't fish like some of the really great individuals on this site, but I sure can try to act like one of them.

    Flameless, hopefully,

    :thumb:
     
  4. mat1226

    mat1226 Active Member

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    Mike,
    That is very well put. You probably will not get many responses as you basically hit the subject out of the old proverbial ballpark.
    Now I think I will get off my butt and put my boat in the water tomorrow and see if I can find a coho somewhere south of the Canadian border and north of Seattle.:thumb:
     
  5. salt dog

    salt dog card shark

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    :thumb:
    Well done Mike.
     
  6. Shawn MD

    Shawn MD a.k.a. Riverfisher99

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    Aggreed Mike. You basically said what alot of others may have been thinking. I dig the way you put it. Thanks!



    :beer2:


    Shawn
     
  7. Josh Benjamin

    Josh Benjamin Member

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    Mike...again...well said.
    thats how it should be done.
     
  8. wildman

    wildman New Member

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    Hows Mazama Jim?
     
  9. MrP

    MrP Member

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    An articulate and thoughtful response Mike. Thanks. TTU :thumb: :thumb:
     
  10. Bob Triggs

    Bob Triggs Stop Killing Wild Steelhead!

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    Who was that masked man...?:cool:
     
  11. Coach Duff

    Coach Duff Banned or Parked

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    Well put Mike. I will say this though. If you take the time to buy a gazeteer or a Thomas Guide at Costco, and have the independance to ignore this site and especially the flyshop boards, this stuff can be even funner. Find water, whether it be creeks, rivers, lakes, ponds or beaches and give the regs a check. Then go fish. Alot of this type of exploring is 3 and 4 weight stuff, but then again alot of it is 6-9 weight stuff. A 10 inch rainbow in a creek in North Seattle on a 16 caddis you tied yourself is alot of fun. How about an 18 inch rainbow in a little pond behind HomeDepot somewhere. There is a pretty good sized Army base we all know about with good fishing. WINK! The list is endless. So is a 17 inch searun under a bridge on your way to one of the "rivers". So is a steelhead that kicks your ass on the same caddis on a little river you thought only had little trout. So is your first cabezon on a beach you found yourself. So is a 5 pound bass in a golf-course pond. So is a brown that is too big for its surroundings in the Alpine Lakes. So is an incidental Sockeye in a feeder stream 25 miles above unpassable falls. Get the drift? It's endless. There are still runs of steelhead, and salmon in the Seattle proper area if you are willing to hustle a bit. Now granted, this also means days where you find out the water you found is void of fish, or on private property, but isn't that fishing? Ya worried about getting skunked? Go to another sport. Today. Getting skunked doesn't stop you from learning to roll cast better, or work on you swing, or casting around that tree that's in your way. That's all part of this too, I thought. Getting better each time, right boys? Maybe it is the instant gratification society we live in, but flyfishing is supposed to be a departure from that shit. Hell, if you drive the mountain loop there is every species of fish imaginable from creek to pond to river to lake and in between. Nobody gets any extra respect from catching fish. No one walks out of the bar with the hottest hen because they catch fish. Well maybe someone has, the point is we should do a better job of sharing the experience not the catch. Like alot of us, and I mean alot of us, I've caught alot of steelhead and whatever else, but my fondest days were when I followed a hunch, sweated my ass off, lost my fly box, broke my ass and at the end of the day landed a little bit of nature's perfection in an un-named body of water that no one knew anything about or cared about and got to slide that fish no matter how big or small into the dark blue. Then I giggle my ass off all the way back to the rig. I feel like it's my way to get over on all those sorry bastards in the rat race who don't know what that feeling is. All by myself, just my rod and me and those fish no one knows about. And the mosquito bites, and scratches and bruises. I'll trade one of those trips for 3 days of combat fishing, even if the fish are big and plentiful. That's flyfishing to me, and if you newbies haven't felt that way yet, something is wrong. Get off of the internet and grab some topos (Metzgers Maps boys) and go get your ass kicked. Then when someone does post your favorite spot, it won't piss ya off, because you'll have 15 backup spots. It's called flyfishing. Tight lines boys
     
  12. Charapa

    Charapa New Member

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    iagree well put, glad to have company w/ 'thinking' like that! :thumb:

    Regards
     
  13. livetofish

    livetofish Fish to Live

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    Thanks, coach. You made my general point, without my sh***y, bashing attitude. I just get frustrated sometimes trying to stay ahead of the crowds to find new (to me) water and/or new fish, only to have someone post about the spot I worked hard to "discover". Granted, the spot was almost certainly only "new" to me, but for me, a large part of the reward of well over 30 years of flyfishing the NW is in the discovery and the search, and I get ticked (right or wrong, there it is) when the "instant-gratification-saw-it-in-a-magazine-or-on-the-internet" crowd shows up. These folks are not exclusively "newbies" or "veterans", just lazy. I know, I know, they will always show up eventually... but... whether it's in one of the flyfishing mags or here, I'm always frustrated to see the paragraph that starts by talking about what a beautiful quiet sport this is and then finishes with a list of specific locations. One old article comes to mind about SE AK steelheading that touted the beauty and solitude of discovering wild steelhead runs in small island streams (awesome article up to this point, lots of great tips on do-it-yourself steelheading, etc.) and then specifically outed "sleepers" I had fished for years (EDT, if you're out there, FU). I'm not talking the Situk; true sleepers. The next spring, I saw people in places I had never seen anyone before. The examples are endless. Bottom line is, I love to talk about the hunt, the techniques, the fish, but will always stay away in public forums from naming names. Sorry, everyone, for the attitude, or for not being "one of the really great individuals on this site", or for being a "group B Player" but that's how I feel.
     
  14. Coach Duff

    Coach Duff Banned or Parked

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    I'm with ya 100% brother. I come across as abrasive even when I don't mean to. I would do anything for a flyfisherman in need, but I think of this sport as a marathon, not a sprint. I think a little bit of mystery is good for all of us. Much apologies to Matt Burke a few weeks ago when I came unglued about giving reports. The more I think about things, the more I feel like we should give beginners just enough info to succeed, but to leave gaps they need to fill on their own. That's how I was taught. Pull the experience out of them and make catching fish secondary. With kindness and respect and without ego. Thanks Burke, ya done me good. Semper Fi Coach
     
  15. Mike Etgen

    Mike Etgen Not Quite A Luddite, But Can See One From Here

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    iagree

    Not only does that make perfect sense to me, I'm sure anyone could understand and respect that, and you couldn't have said it more clearly.

    Actually, I'M sorry. By no means did I mean to question your attitude and I sure don't know enough about you or this membership as a whole to have much more than the faintest idea about who really knows this game. I just know that there's a handful of regulars who seem to know what they speak of (like the hunt, techniques, and fish) and have what I feel is a great way of "speaking their truth." And I hope that if I ever have that kind of wisdom, I'll remember where I started.

    Bottom line for me is, you raised a good point and got some thoughtful responses. Not every topic gets that kind of response, and for everyone who reads it and has something to say, there's probably many more who will read it and come away with a different perspective.

    Peace :thumb: