Just one big, happy family...

Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by livetofish, Sep 18, 2006.

  1. Richard E

    Richard E Active Member

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    Mike, I know where you're coming from, but sometimes this approach just doesn't work. I've tried it before, and instead the person copied and pasted my post to him for all to see. Heck, the location now even got more attention.

    What I find is interesting is that some folks EXPECT to obtain detailed information from their new Internet buddies, and sometimes get pissy if folks don't give it up. :thumb:
     
  2. Richard E

    Richard E Active Member

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    I'm with you, man.

    People need to exercise discretion when posting about specific locations. Some spots just can't handle a gob of folks, and people need to consider before disclosing info on the Web that will be there for as long as the website is around. A person can write a report about a generic location or general water, say the Yakima, without giving away too much. If someone else contacts you offline to maybe get some information, that's the way to do it.

    :thumb:
     
  3. wolverine

    wolverine Member

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    Being both a fly and a gear fisherman I am continually amazed at how polarized this "where to" issue has become. On the one hand there are those (not just newbies but lurkers who never contribute anything constructive to the boards) who want/expect GPS coordinates to the exact rock that fish were caught from. On the other are those types who get upset if you mention which state that the fish were caught in.
    I can understand the problems that posting about resident trout in difficult to access hike in locations can cause. People have worked long and hard to find these spots and it find it difficult to see these spots divulged. What I don't understand is their moaning about large river systems and salt water fisheries where the target fish are anadramous and are here today and gone tomorrow. We can't put the genie back into the bottle as the internet has and will continue to shorten the learning time for new fishers. The old "pay your dues" by putting in the time and finding your own spots is no longer applicable. If the info seekers don't find it here they'll find it elsewhere. We'd all be better off if we concentrated on teaching proper ethics and respect for the resource instead of taking pot shots at each other.
     
  4. chongfk

    chongfk Banned or Parked

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    It's sad to see fly fishing has become so "exclusive" and "secretive". It seems like only a certain "elite" fly fisherman (with 30+ years of experience) has the right to certain fishing spot. I am sorry, but I don't think this is a positive attitude for the sport of fly fishing. No wonder fly fishermen always has this high-up, mighty, and egoistic image for most others, which is not healthy for the sport.

    Exploration for new fishing locations is great. I admire those who are able and willing to do a lot of exploration. I did a lot of exploring back east when I am still a student. I find enjoyment in finding new water, new scenery and new fishing location. I find enjoyment in the journey of exploring but I do not resent those who reach my favorite fishing creek through an easier journey.

    To think some fishermen would differentiate fellow fishermen by how hard they discover their fishing location make me sad. So you have discovered all the perfect fishing location with over 30 years of hard exploration, you might deserve a national parade for your hard work, but does that mean you have more right to fish a location then those who discover it from the net or from the magazine? Of course not!!! It’s public water and everybody has the same right to it. Is it ethical to disclose some of the “premium” fishing location to the public? Sure it is. Disclosing a public fishing location hurt no one except the pride of some self-proclaim “true fly fisherman”. To share or not to share is a matter of personal choice and practice. You don’t like to reveal your almighty fishing location? Fine, but you can’t stop me from revealing mine. It’s my right and I consider that as helping others. Will I ever get a thank you for sharing? Probably not, but I sure don’t need anyone’s lecture on what I should or should not write about in a fishing report.

    I hope there’s a book out there that’s call “All the Secret Fishing Spots in Washington State”. This book contains maps that reveal all of the secret fishing spots throughout Washington state with detail descriptions. When all secrets are reveal, there will be no more secret and it will forever put an end to this discussion. Am I worried about crowded fishing situation? No, not at all. I truly do not believe that average fisherman will wake up at 5am or earlier to go fishing, or hike 10 miles to a beautiful fishing location, or kayaking miles of shoreline to look for jumping baitfish or so on and so on. If they do, doesn’t that show their passion for fly fishing and aren’t we fly fisherman are suppose to encourage this kind of passion? If some one can hike a day, crawl through bushes, beat and bleed to reach a location, does it matter if this some one get the information on the net or magazine? You tell me.

    The above is solely my own opinion. In no way I am trying to offend anyone by writing these. I am merely presenting a point of view that is different from the original poster.
     
  5. Matt Burke

    Matt Burke Active Member

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    Hey, this is a pretty civilized thread. I should throw in a few superlatives and aggravate everyone so that our reputation doesn’t get thrown off track. All very well said, especially mike and coach. I’ve always been amazed at what the anonymity of the web will bring out, both good and bad. As of late I’ve been thinking that us class B and C players really ought to help out the newbies (I never admit to not being able to learn more from others so I really try to be a class A). It really wouldn’t be that big of a deal for me to meet people out on the river during the week. My waders are back in “never get a chance to dry out mode.” As we’re sort of a club, I’d like to see a “Sponsor the Newb Campaign.” Because I know, you get people out from behind their computerscreen; they are not the same person.
     
  6. Coach Duff

    Coach Duff Banned or Parked

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    Let's see Chong, "self-proclaim", "elite", "high up", "mighty", "egotistic", "deserve a national parade", "don't need anyones' lecture", and the "in no way am I trying to offend anyone". Sure.
    I've e-mailed you before. Your message is okay but your tone reeks of resentment for the sport you are involved in. Tell you what, you keep telling everyone excatly where and how you fish and if you are not already, you will find yourself in the flyshop and internet vortex. It's kind of a slow death void of otter and orca sightings, unusually aggessive fish, quiet sunsets, mountain lions, bear, deer you can pet, a place to take a nap, and all of the other things that come with flyfishing. You see, you attract enough people to an area, those things of beauty dissappear. Bait tins, beer cans, meth pipes, human feces, miles of broken lures and egg rigs under the water. You'll catch fish though and so will the guys standing right next to you. The state sees to that. You paid for those fish. I'll keep hiking and scaling and crawling. And I'll only tell my fishing buddy or maybe my wife where I went. That's my right too. I've done this for a long time. I would love to see how you feel about this in 25 years. Personal space becomes more important to me. Quiet. Peace. Thoughts. Theory. Observation gets better. I don't run into holes anymore. I might even let someone pass me, for the joy of a few wild blackberries. I share the spots I know everbody knows. So do the magazines. So does the flyshops. So does the Fishing and Hunting News. Hell John Shewey did an article on the South Fork of the Sky. The mysteries of this sport are what keep me coming back. You go ahead and publish that book. We may cross in a parking lot someday, but I'll be the guy walking miles past where the last page on the book ends. Taking naps all by myself. Eating blackberries. Hearing nothing but the sound of the river. Catching big fish, lots of them. Some of us catch fish because we flyfish and some of us flyfish to catch fish. I'm in the first group. Where are you? :beer1:
     
  7. I 1ur|<0r J00

    I 1ur|<0r J00 New Member

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    I'm in the "A blackberry pie sure sounds good" group :) hehheh. Hey coach 1965 called, they want their bait tins back.
     
  8. chongfk

    chongfk Banned or Parked

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    When I first come to Washington State, I ask some of my friends about fishing in Washington State. They teach me a lot and then they ask me what I fish with. I told them I like to do fly fishing. Immediately, they look at me differently but they did not say why. Later on, I spoke with other fisherman and I found that there is general resentment to fly fisherman. I do not understand the hostility at that point; I thought it was just my luck that I keep meeting people who dislike fly fishing. Then I come across some fly fisherman on my fishing trip and I started to browse on WFF. Until now, I understand why. "elite", "high up", "mighty", "egotistic", is what others (not necessary fisherman) describe fly fishermen. I did not come up with these description because I my self is a fly fisherman and I wouldn't want to be associated with these words. Unfortunately, this is how others see fly fisherman. These are the images that fly fishermen has to the general public. Of course most of us will not care and keep doing what we do. However, this is not healthy. There are other words that are associated with fly fishing such as “hard”, “mysterious”, and “complicated”. Maybe this is ok; it makes the sport of fly fishing unique. However, these images are driving people away; we are not attracting the interest of the general public. Of course, this is exactly what some fly fisherman want to see: the less the merrier.

    I hike often. I often go on to berries picking trip. I love the wilderness and enjoy picking the blackberries as well. I just don’t mind people around me. I try to take my friends to some of my berries picking trip, but they are just not interested. They would rather buy the berries from the store. Same thing in fly fishing, not everybody will take the fishing trip that you told them, they would rather fish the major rivers and lakes that everybody knows about. For those who are willing to go through the trouble to fish the hard reaching location, why discourage them? Everybody can get the information on the net or magazine or fly store, but what’s matter is how they will use this information. If someone use this information, actually go out and fish, I say this information has served its purpose well.

    I love fishing, doesn’t matter catching or not. Sometimes I went to my favorite fishing location just to enjoy the view and chatting with other fisherman. I hope more people will share my way of fishing.

    I hope more people will post the their genuine fishing experience including location, water condition, fly used and techniques here to encourage the growth of fly fishing and for the purpose of information exchange. If you see someone who fish illegally or loitering, please have the courage to correct them “nicely” or inform the related authority about improper behavior. Knowledge and education is the only way to save Washington’s resource, especially the young one. If their father does not teach them the right way to fish, you will teach them the right way to fish.

    I believe I will feel the same in 25 years, sharing and helping is always true to the philosophy of fly fishing. Hopefully, with my growing fishing experience, I can reveal more fishing location through out the year. I probably don’t have the expertise to publish book such as “The Secret Fishing Spots in Washington State”, but it will be nice if I do.

    Again I want to say that it is a personal preference to reveal or not a fishing spot. It's your preference to not reveal a location in your report and it's my preference to do otherwise.
     
  9. chongfk

    chongfk Banned or Parked

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    coachduff:

    About the "deserve a national parade" comment, I actually mean it, and in a good way. I have always envy those who have the time, are willing and able to explore around. I have always admired those who venture around and discovering new things. I idolize those who have explored the up and down, in and out of Washington state for most of their life, and I truly think that they deserve a national parade.

    However, I do not admire their attitude towards anglers who learn about their fishing location from the net or magazine.
     
  10. Coach Duff

    Coach Duff Banned or Parked

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    Ahh, the delivery is everything. Very well put Chong. You know most people have pre-conceived notions of something foreign to them. But it's amazing how fast those beliefs change when they hook that first fish on a fly rod. One minute the're using terms like elitist, snobby and stuffy and one little fish later it's off to the fly shop. "What's tippet?" Chong you do have to understand the fun of having your own secret little spot. You are a good conservationist, outdoorsman, and love to flyfish. Just remember that just because you respect the laws and the environment, everyone else doesn't. They read magazines, and the internet also. Poachers, druggies, arsonists, chemical dumpers, ect ect. So I think what is needed is kind of a balance between "come and get it" and the other extreme. I give a little info to get a little info and some areas which are very fragile ecosystem wise, I keep in my circle of people I trust. You can do it however you want. I just hope you understand a little deeper why guys get pissed when their spot is broadcast. They have that right also. They have done this long enough to see a special place destroyed. Just a thought. Tight lines and I hope your next outing is great fishing. Coachptyd
     
  11. Richard E

    Richard E Active Member

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  12. chongfk

    chongfk Banned or Parked

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    Richard,

    I understand where you are coming from. However, I respectfully disagree with you. My first post on this thread is mainly in response to the following message:


    There are genuine newbies who want to learn how to fly fish here. I understand the arguments on location disclosing, but preventing others from sharing information on techniques, tackle, tides, and beach characteristics? A true newbie to salt water fly fishing probably don't even know where to look for a local tide table and do not understand the important of tide-fish relationship. What's wrong with sharing such information? Thank goodness most of the posters here do share this information.
     
  13. livetofish

    livetofish Fish to Live

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    Chongfk,

    First, please reread your quote of the original post. I was applauding and encouraging the posting of "techniques, tackle, tides, general areas, beach characteristics, etc.". I was only asking folks to reconsider posting specific locations in a public forum. I come here to learn just like everyone else, and believe me I need it! :thumb:

    Second, nowhere did I state or suggest that it is only newbies who are looking for shortcuts to finding quality water. This is clearly an attribute shared by many new flyfishers and veterans alike. I stated this clearly in my second post. So please don't try to twist this debate into a newbie vs old-timer thing, which it isn't.
     
  14. raincityrod

    raincityrod Guest

    Keep on pontificating boy's. Keeps you off the streets and creeks. I would rather see you here than there.
     
  15. Shawn MD

    Shawn MD a.k.a. Riverfisher99

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    Matt Burke:

    As of late I’ve been thinking that us class B and C players really ought to help out the newbies (I never admit to not being able to learn more from others so I really try to be a class A). It really wouldn’t be that big of a deal for me to meet people out on the river during the week. My waders are back in “never get a chance to dry out mode.” As we’re sort of a club, I’d like to see a “Sponsor the Newb Campaign.” Because I know, you get people out from behind their computerscreen; they are not the same person.

    Could I sign up for the class B and C class? I would love to meet more people out on the rivers. Hell, I would just like to sit and watch someone who CAN cast well do it so I can learn something!ptyd



    Shawn