kinda haunting...

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by the_trout_bum, Aug 15, 2008.

  1. djzaro

    djzaro New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Messages:
    218
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    gone, bs
    Jeremy.... Seriously?... He asked a ? and most responded with a reasonable answer. I don't think he is going to avoid the woods from now on. How about a reasonable answer or read and move on. Seems a knife is the most advantagous if attacked. That would be my advice. I hate the idea of sacrificing my dog, but you're right, it would be a good trade off. Stay safe.
     
  2. Jake L

    Jake L New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2008
    Messages:
    344
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Sammamish, WA
    I've got a .17 hmr. Saweeet little gun. But not for protection from anything bigger than killer woodchucks. (they can be absolutely vicious) I think a rifle or shotgun of any kind would be extremely heavy to carry, along with completely useless if an animal was attacking you on short notice. I haven't been attacked by any big predators (unless you count that dungee that came after my boot this morning), but from what I here, they don't call to set up appointments. So while a long gun may work for protection when you're walking along on full alert with the gun at the ready, that seems very inconvenient. Find a legal way to get some sort of handgun to carry (I have no idea what regs there are about a parent buying one for you or something like that); or get a good knife or bear spray. A long gun of any kind simply isn't practical enough.
     
  3. Noah Pefaur

    Noah Pefaur New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Mill Creek, WA, USA.
    After reading through this thread I believe that two people mentioned the only real solution for The Trout Bum based on his situation, "Get a dog". By his avatar it looks like he already has a perfect dog for the situation, a black lab. They're loyal, reasonably smart, and often aren't afraid to mix it up for thier owner's well being. Besides, there's nothing better than heading out somewhere with your dog in the cab of your truck. Man I miss having a dog. I miss having a truck too....
     
  4. Preston

    Preston Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2004
    Messages:
    2,817
    Likes Received:
    925
    Location:
    .
    During the brouhaha a few years back about re-introducing grizzly bears into the North Cascades an article appeared in the Sunday supplement of one of the local papers pointing out that grizzlies had only killed 17 people in the lower 48 since 1900. To put it in perspective, the author noted that, in one previous year, more people than that had been killed when soft drink machines had tipped over and fallen on top of them. Of course, he did feel obliged to add the caveat "a Coke machine will not rip your tent open and drag you out screaming."
     
  5. wik

    wik Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    renton
  6. ChrisC

    ChrisC Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2003
    Messages:
    647
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    .
    Don't disagree with the fact that it's never been a quiet forest. If you bring up deaths from dope growers or meth heads, whatever may be the case, statistically, the odds still very low, not much different from death from bear attacks. So the precaution you take by wearing a seat belt is far, far more effective than the precaution of taking a gun into the woods. Obviously emotion is a bigger factor in personal decision making (take how casinos have emerged all over this area or how many people continue to buy lottery tickets) than one's awareness of relative probabilities.
     
  7. Mike T

    Mike T Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    Messages:
    871
    Likes Received:
    65
    Location:
    Gig Harbor, WA
    I understand your point, however looking only at the odds or probabilty factor doesn't always give the clearest picture. For example, overall numbers for brown bear attacks may be relatively low, but they've had several attacks in the last few weeks in the Anchorage area. Those overall numbers mean very little if you live in Anchorage.

    Once again it comes back to the amount of risk an individual is willing to accept in any given past time or decision.
     
  8. ChrisC

    ChrisC Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2003
    Messages:
    647
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    .
    I agree, certainly the probabilities are specific to a particular area so it would be much more sensible to bring protection to those areas.
     
  9. Steven Green

    Steven Green Hood Canal Pirate

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    Messages:
    517
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Poulsbo, Washington
    Don't bother carrying around a gun. Strap a fixed blade on your belt or pack where its easily accessed, thats what I do. Not for cougar protection, though as stated that would probably be the fasted weapon to use. I've never used my knife for defense and probably never will and thats not why I bring it. Knives are just damn useful. I've never gone fishing and though to myself, "damn, I wish I had left my knife at home."
     
  10. ShuksanRodCo.

    ShuksanRodCo. New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2008
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Bellingham, WA
    After 20+ years with a lot of time in the high country I have had only two 'close encounters' (which I consider being scared) with bear and saw a cat once...again scared (sh*tless actually). I only have this to contribute to this discussion.

    1. paranoid people in the woods with guns (... who are not permit hunting), especially packing semi-automatic guns- scare me far more than any predatory animal.
    2. if a cat wants you there isn't a damn thing you're going to be able to do about it- the things are like Ninjas. Honestly you have to know that going in the sticks. You won't 'come up on one' and if it is going to come up on you'll either never know what happened or you're be damn lucky if it leaves you alone
    3. most bear encounters are 'our' fault. we leave too much good smelling stuff around, don't clean up well enough, startle them (wear bells on your boots)- which startles us. It takes a siginifcant amount of firepower to drop an adult bear. I think it is unrealistic to 'prepare' for an attack by carrying a gun that could take one down.

    The only practical method of defense if you even want to call it that, is to carry a well made knife with a 6" or so blade- mostly because it is used for so many other things in the high country, but -and in my wildest dreams truthfully- if you are attached there may be some far reaching possibility that you would have both the sense and ability to fight back with your knife.

    The best thing you can do is to bring a dog.
    And probably the best thing yet is to not worry so much about it as the probability of an attack is so low to begin with- and if it happens...well...
     
  11. cj6530

    cj6530 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2007
    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Bellevue WA
    Take a statastics class at your local university....you rattlesnake dudes would probably find the class usefull as well. I love guns and knives...and by all means strap yourself all down when you fish the South Fork or wherever. But admit your doing it cause it makes you feel like a cowboy (which is an OK reason) not because of any real threat from wildlife.
     
  12. jasmillo

    jasmillo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2006
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    17
    as many folks have already pointed out - if a couger wants you, he will get to you before you ever get a chance to pull a firearm and get off a shot. if you have the opportunity to shoot a couger it was probably no threat because it wasn't stalking you. the best protection against cougers is probably an easily accesible knife and a pack that covers your neck.

    as far as bears are concerned, how often are there actually bear attacks in which we are looked at as food. i am pulling this number out of my a$$ but my guess is that 98% of bear attacks are due to suprise, cub protection, etc.(including all if not most of the attacks happening in anchorage recently) bear spray usually works fine in these situations.

    methheads and growers in forest, etc. your guess is as good as mine. maybe a firearm is the best scenario in those situations. how common are violent confrontations like this though?

    I have no problem with folks carrying a handgun for protection in the forest if they are experienced and level-headed. but a young kid wanting to carry a shot-gun into the forest to protect against black bears and lions? seems like a bit of an overcompensation? there really are a ton of other things in life you should be worried about.
     
  13. steelydan

    steelydan Newb seeking wisdom

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
    Messages:
    432
    Likes Received:
    45
    Location:
    Sammamish WA
    I am always packing, either concealed, or preferably, open carry.
    I bought a titanium 45acp revolver for reasons of weight and weather resistance.
    better to have it and not need it.
    I am worried about 2 legged predators as much as 4 legged.
    PS.....don't confuse fatal attacks with maulings and others.
    Re the original post...the small bore cartridges you mentioned are useless except for noise(I use .223 to hunt coyotes and varmints, not defense)
    you can buy a 9mm carbine for about $175 that will do damage to man or beast.
    The post above re Mossberg 500 doorbuster is as serious as a heart attack for defense but bulky.
    That's the #1 carry in AK bear country by those who know.
     
  14. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2007
    Messages:
    2,051
    Likes Received:
    53
    Location:
    Washington
    Winchester 1300 with a rifled barrel. Buy the folding stock and pistol grip conversion kit. It will make it dramatically lighter and eaiser to carry. It will shoot 3 inch hollowpoint sabots and remove a cougars head from its neck. Having said that. If a cat is hunting you, It will be on you before you get a shot off. Carry a knife and a first aid kit.
     
  15. Gary Thompson

    Gary Thompson dirty dog

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Messages:
    3,949
    Likes Received:
    161
    Location:
    East Wenatchee, WA
    I don't carry big knifes or guns when I fish. I have no fear of being attacked by bears or cougars, doesn't mean I would not shit my pants if I saw one coming at me.
    But sense you are young and want to live to be old (like me) you should carry a big knife and a short barreled shot gun with 00 buck.
    I'm thinking your best defense is your fly rod sticking out 9 ft behind you when your going down the trail.
    Tie a bright colored ribbon to the tip, the cat will want to play with the ribbon and that will give you time to get your gun out.
    Now go out and have fun and be careful with that big knife and shot gun.