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Ling Cod 2017

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cod ling
17K views 180 replies 30 participants last post by  mtskibum16 
#1 ·
Anyone make it out for the opener today or planning to soon? Post up some flies you're using, gear, technique tips, pictures of fish you caught, etc here. I have yet to target lings on the fly, but I'd love to go if anyone ever has an open seat!
 
#91 ·
I'm not talking about being at the right depth, the dimension at which lead sinkers are obviously better, but how close the bait will go to the ling in the other two dimensions. We live in a 3D world. If it's on a two foot tether the closest the bait is going to be to the ling is two feet if the weight passes right over the ling. If the ling isn't motivated to move two feet then there's no bite. How do you explain the live octopus not getting hit? I'd really like your thoughts on that.

I rarely fish live bait and only under peer pressure when it's not my boat or extreme hunger. Never done it in PNW. I do know that artificial lures out fish live bait for tarpon in certain situations and the only explanation I can think of is the live bait won't go near the tarpon. I think lack of proper fear response is a big part of why artificial baits get hit at all, ever.

I would take your challenge but only for fun. :) I would expect to lose 99 times out of 100.

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#92 ·
I think I get what you're saying... Though still not understanding how the bait would get no closer than 2'. The lead is on a slider, so there is fluctuation with how much the bait can move, but even on a two foot leader it's definitely possible to get it closer than 2' to a ling.

That said you're over looking one extremely important factor... IMO lings will move a very good distance for a live bait, and even more so for a live greenling. It's amazed me how many lings I've hooked that have followed live bait up from 100' or more and take it right at the surface.

In this case it's a situation where too much analysis can lead to missing the obvious... Lingcod absolutely friggen love live bait, especially greenling. There's not much reason to think too far beyond that, and IMO that simple fact is all that is needed.

But it would be a lot of fun to get out there with ya and test it all out :)

I'm not talking about being at the right depth, the dimension at which lead sinkers are obviously better, but how close the bait will go to the ling in the other two dimensions. We live in a 3D world. If it's on a two foot tether the closest the bait is going to be to the ling is two feet if the weight passes right over the ling. If the ling isn't motivated to move two feet then there's no bite. How do you explain the live octopus not getting hit? I'd really like your thoughts on that.

I rarely fish live bait and only under peer pressure when it's not my boat or extreme hunger. Never done it in PNW. I do know that artificial lures out fish live bait for tarpon in certain situations and the only explanation I can think of is the live bait won't go near the tarpon. I think lack of proper fear response is a big part of why artificial baits get hit at all, ever.

I would take your challenge but only for fun. :) I would expect to lose 99 times out of 100.

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#95 · (Edited)
How many gear guys are using small, sparse gear? How many are using 2" herring? My thoughts on flies for coho are based on a gear background
There is nothing small or sparse about gear fishing for salmon, yet many fly guys hit the beach with size six comets and clousers and things. I just don't believe that's the way to go based on how I was raised fishing for salmon. If there are only two coho that move through the beach, I want both of those coho to see my flies. I also tie my flies with more flash than lots of folks think is necessary. I've caught far too many fish with my huge flies while standing next to guys casting small stuff to believe it doesn't make a difference. At least when speaking about traveling/feeding fish of course.

I believe my results speak for themselves, but as usual confidence plays an enormous factor IMO. There is more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak, and I've watched you and your dad and plenty of others catch plenty of fish on smaller flies so I'm definitely not saying it's the only way to go. But for me it's the only way I fish anymore. It's where my confidence lies and that's probably more important than most things.

That said I think my Puget Sound ling flies are about the same size as lots of folks
..generally 10-12". When I'm tying flies for the coast I try to keep them in the 6-8" range as I find that the huge flies just aren't necessary out there. There are so many more fish on the coast and in general they seem much more aggressive that I've stopped bothering with the monster flies most of the time.
 
#96 ·
Nick -
Have fished extensively for lings here in Puget Sound for lings with a variety of methods including live bait, various jigs and yes flies. While I agree with you that it is hard to beat live bait for consistently producing fish fishing is always about producing the most fish but at times about catching fish the way we want to.

That said my experience there are situations were the fly angler can indeed consistently out fish those fishing live bait. Those situations are typically where we can present our lure of choice in a more enticing fashion than even live bait. I base that on a reasonable amount of experience including being able to produce 50 fish to hand in three days with my flies. Or I should have said I use to be able to do that. Which brings me to the your common about ling fishing not blowing up. In central Puget Sound the ling population is doing exactly that is on the verge of total collapse. That collapse is being driven by poor recruitment for several years, heavy fishing pressure and limited amount of high quality ling habitat. That collapse is further being driven by angler apathy and willingness to think beyond their next day on the water.

As an aside it is gratifying to see the number of anglers targeting lings that have recognized the value of unweight flies and large spun deer hair heads.

Curt
 
#100 ·
Nick -
While I agree with you that it is hard to beat live bait for consistently producing fish fishing is always about producing the most fish but at times about catching fish the way we want to.
I don't think the debate was ever about how much anyone enjoys a certain type of fishing, but the most effective way to catch them. All started by the comment that a fly fisherman can put on a show for the live bait guys. Knowing Nick fairly well, I can pretty much guarantee that if he was on his own time and fishing for fun (not filling a freezer), it would be with a fly rod.
 
#98 ·
I respect your opinion Curt, but cannot agree that its possible to present an artificial fly in a manner more enticing than a live greenling. I have no doubt you've had many successful days targeting lings with a fly, and nowhere have I said it's not an effective method, but IMO it is simply not as effective as life bait and I will stick to that opinion. There is nothing more enticing to a lingcod than food that is alive.

The reasons you listed as the cause of the collapse of PS lingcod fishing are affected very little by discussing such fishing on a fly fishing board, IMO. And I don't believe apathy towards the situation is anyone's attitude here.
 
#102 ·
The reasons you listed as the cause of the collapse of PS lingcod fishing are affected very little by discussing such fishing on a fly fishing board, IMO. And I don't believe apathy towards the situation is anyone's attitude here.
Exactly. As a kid I remember us, and more so other notable fisherman as we mostly just targeted salmon, fishing about a dozen well known spots in MA 9 and 10 for lings, from Marrowstone to Double Bluff to Possession, not to mention breakwaters and small rockpiles. But with ample other opportunities it just didn't get as much attention.

Now there's plenty of online resources and radio talk specifically about how to target PS lings with sand dabs, and it seems like there are 20 boats at Possession every weekend day during ling season. And sort of to Parker's point, those breakwaters do seem to get fished out fast these days.

Ling fishing is definitely more popular than it used to be, and it's taking a toll on the population in the Sound. Because of that I agree the season should be shorter than it is now from MA 8 or 9 south. But from my perspective as a gear angler AND fly angler, fly guys and fly forums are not the cause of any of that, and are a small component of the pressure.
 
#103 ·
Increased population and reduced fishing opportunities equals more pressure on the few remaining fisheries. That and a lack of habitat hampers Puget Sound lingcod numbers from expanding. It is important to note that a lot of structure (especially wooden boats) has dissolved or been silted in over the past 60 years. Before the 60s and 70s it was not uncommon for boats to be scuttled in the sound. Artificial reefs would quickly solve this problem but the WDFW, NOAA and other organizations are unwilling to pursue this despite most of the other states in the country utilizing artificial reefs with great success.
 
#105 · (Edited)
No problem. Depth matters not for fishing live bait. 10' or 100', live bait will prevail ;)

Not to take away from your abilities as a fly fisherman as you can obviously catch fish, but the fact that you listed "more than 50 lings" as the benchmark for your experience and success kinda proves my point. That's just a good three day weekend of fishing live bait ;)
I said well over 50, I haven't kept exact count and every ling I have ever caught has been on a fly rod. I'm a true fly only guy for 99% of my fishing, the only exception is if I'm trolling with downriggers for kings. I know a number of people on here talk a big game but ultimately end up fishing gear rods more than they would like to admit. For the record gear, fly, whatever...who cares as long as you're having fun. I just find it entertaining how many "experts" there are on targeting certain fish who have probably never actually caught said species with a fly rod. Not directing that comment towards you Nick, I know you've caught lings on a fly rod.

For fill disclosure I've also got a steelhead centerpin rod which I rarely use. Only if I'm floating solo in the iDB to hit spots in between swinging runs.
 
#106 ·
However that goes both ways. You just admitted you have no experience fishing gear (let alone live bait) for lings, yet you're somehow confident you can catch more with a fly?

Whatever, it's a dumb argument. I just want some of you guys to post pics of the lings you're catching with big flies hanging out of their mouth! I haven't been able to make it out at all, so I have to live vicariously though you. :(
 
#107 ·
Artificial reefs are not proven to increase stocks and might actually increase exploitation by concentrating fish.

http://www.mbara.org/pdf/grossman_97_avp.pdf

What does have a big effect on local recruitment is how many spawning males are in the area. Males come back to the very same spot every year but females roam around. Turn PS into a lingcod sausage party and you might well find recruitment numbers growing.. :)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15660954

"Both nest site affinity and extreme male nest site fidelity were observed"
" No female laid more than one nest per season or spawned in the study area in both years"

Since it's so easy, maybe a bait fishing ban?

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#111 ·
I have to respectfully disagree with you mbowers and the study provided. Lingcod and rockfish don't live over vast expanses of sand and mud. With minimal habitat that is already at carrying capacity (until fishing season) the only way to increase numbers is to have more habitat. This includes kelp and eel grass for juveniles.
 
#110 ·
Sure, there are plenty of days on the beach that I out fish good bait fisherman too...but there are more when they out fish me (and every other fly guy) because it's more effective. You need more than a day, week, month, or even a season of it happening consistently before it means anything. Maybe you have that, maybe not, it doesn't really matter. I would still find it pretty unlikely that a fly will out fish live bait on a consistent basis in varying conditions.

"Hey guys, this one time in these very specific conditions I out fished some knuckle dragger with live bait. I've caught so many lings it's not even funny. I don't talk about it though because it's so trendy and way too many people fly fish for them." Oh, and my reading comprehension is fine, thanks. ;) (it's fine to be a dick if you add a winky face right?)
 
#112 ·
Sure, there are plenty of days on the beach that I out fish good bait fisherman too...but there are more when they out fish me (and every other fly guy) because it's more effective. You need more than a day, week, month, or even a season of it happening consistently before it means anything. Maybe you have that, maybe not, it doesn't really matter. I would still find it pretty unlikely that a fly will out fish live bait on a consistent basis in varying conditions.

"Hey guys, this one time in these very specific conditions I out fished some knuckle dragger with live bait. I've caught so many lings it's not even funny. I don't talk about it though because it's so trendy and way too many people fly fish for them." Oh, and my reading comprehension is fine, thanks. ;) (it's fine to be a dick if you add a winky face right?)
I've been fishing a long time bro and you don't know much of anything about me. But keep going, I'm getting a good chuckle on my end [emoji23] I'll be catching lings on my fly rod out in Neah Bay this weekend though [emoji1360]

And for the record, I'm specifically talking about targeting lingcod and have been this entire time. I'm not talking about any other species.

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#117 ·
Lol This thread is awesome.

Definitely not trying to say fishing live bait is more enjoyable. Hell I find it boring as hell for the most part. Matt is right, I would much rather target them with a fly.

That said I currently fish live bait for lingcod for a living, just about 7 days a week. As such I'm willing to bet I've done more of this type of fishing than most in this discussion. I have no doubt that Parker somewhere along the line has out fished gear guys with his fly rod. No doubt in my mind. Just as there is no doubt in my mind that I would out fish him with live greenling every day of the week and twice and Sundays.
I don't particularly enjoy doing it, but there is a damn good reason most of the Sound charter fleet and now a major percentage of the westport fleet is fishing live bait... It's because it flat out works. We can talk about specific conditions all we want, but nobody here will ever convince me that any other method is superior for flat out catching lingcod. Not talking enjoyment or any other X factor, just flat out catching them. Especially won't be convinced by those who have never even done any of this type of fishing.

Being a pure fly fisherman is cool. But I don't believe it's an advantage
Rather I believe having a background of a variety of techniques makes one a more well rounded angler, and makes a better fly fisher as well.

I don't particularly enjoy fishing live bait, certainly not the way I enjoy fly fishing for them, but when my paycheck is tied to catching lingcod you can damn sure bet I'm advocating for fishing live stuff.

Clearly the only way to solve this is to have the first annual WFF Ling-Off. While I'm more than happy to fish live bait and prove myself right, i really wouldn't have much fun doing it cause I'd certainly rather catch 2 on a fly than 20 on bait.

I don't think the debate was ever about how much anyone enjoys a certain type of fishing, but the most effective way to catch them. All started by the comment that a fly fisherman can put on a show for the live bait guys. Knowing Nick fairly well, I can pretty much guarantee that if he was on his own time and fishing for fun (not filling a freezer), it would be with a fly rod.
 
#121 ·
Clearly the only way to solve this is to have the first annual WFF Ling-Off. While I'm more than happy to fish live bait and prove myself right, i really wouldn't have much fun doing it cause I'd certainly rather catch 2 on a fly than 20 on bait.
If you guys need a complete Ling Cod newbie as an experimental control, I'm going to volunteer myself. Ya' know; randomly assign me to FF or live bait and analyze the results. 'Sounds like a hoot!
 
#130 ·
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