loomis trilogy spey rods?

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by bankwalker, Dec 17, 2007.

  1. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

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    throw a skagit on there and try it again. there's a lot of guys that say not to start out with skagit, but i think it's a good way to go for those who are on the fence on whether or not spey is for them. i have a skagit line i can sell you for cheap if you want to go that route.
     
  2. Kevin Giusti

    Kevin Giusti New Member

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    Hey Bankwalker. I remember when I first tried a two handed rod. After two days I was still CLUELESS:confused:. Wasnt until I took a couple of lessons and PRACTICED ALOT!@ that I was able to start figuring out how to cast better. When you say you can cast the switch further and better are you overhead casting or spey casting? If you are looking to improve on your spey casting I think you will still have problems with a switch rod. Granted switch rods are great for spey casting if properly lined but the same casting principles and techniques are needed to execute a true spey cast, Id say this applies to any rod when spey casting whether it be a single hand rod, a switch rod or a 16' two handed rod. If you truly want to learn to spey cast you have to put in the time. Dont expect to be effortlessly launching out 100' casts in a day or two. Take more lessons if needed. Some good instruction is priceless and quickly excelerates the learning curve. Try and have as many people critique and help you with your casting. Each will possibly offer you a tip that another missed and when you put all the tips together it will start to gel. I agree with trying a skagit type line or even a scandi style line. They are a bit shorter and load the rods easier and require you to SLOW DOWN AND LET THE ROD DO THE WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If your serious about spey casting you may want to keep that rod. You never know, once you get a good line match and start to improve with your casting it may be the perfect rod for your style and you will say " man glad I kept this rod!" Again dont expect to go out and throw it to the other side of the river right off. Just work on making a good cast with proper technique. If you try banging it out there and shooting miles of line into a cast your probably working to hard and working the rod to hard which will only lead to a failed and inefficent cast. SLOW DOWN LET THE ROD DO THE WORK!!!! The girls will be much more impressed with a nice effortless tight looped 50-60 foot cast than a water slurping rod whipping 50-60 foot pile of C___ in the water.:thumb: Good luck and stick with it, ITS WORTH IT!!! Kevin
     
  3. bankwalker

    bankwalker Member

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    yeah thanks guys, im gonna go try a couple more lines and my buddie is taking me out for a couple more hours of lessons.

    and yes i was spey casting with the switch rod...

    so thanks for the advice. im gonna give it a couple more weeks of practice. if i cant get it by then then i never will lol
     
  4. bankwalker

    bankwalker Member

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    ok i got a question...

    how would using a mono running line with say 60-70-80ft of floating line workout?

    have the entire length of floating line out of the rod to load it up? idk its just a thought i had. sence that was the line setup on the switch rods i have casted. and they worked out perfectly for me.

    hmm probably wont work but idk so let me know what ya think about that.
     
  5. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    Keep at it man. I'm a pretty proficient single handed guy, but a two hander is a total nother ball of wax. Having a lot of single handed fundamentals down helps, however, you can't expect to be dominating a spey rod in a few days-- let alone a few years. I've been mainly using a two hander for two years now and still suck! Lower your expectations, be patient, and have fun. It isn't supposed to be easy, which makes it all that much more thrilling.:thumb:
     
  6. bankwalker

    bankwalker Member

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    lol well i excell at everything within a couple days.

    its funny actually i can spey cast my 8wt single hand rod just as far as i can this 13ft spey rod...kinda sucks if you ask me.

    ive had a total of 11 hours with this rod in my hand now and still cant cast it for shit.

    it only took me half and hour with my single hand rod to hit the same distance i can with a spey rod...hell i was roll casting a single hand rod better in that half an hour then alot of guys i know cast a single hand rod.

    ive got to play with a 6wt and 8wt z-acis switch rod, and a 7wt loomis switch rod and they are by far easier for me to spey cast then a true spey rod. so idk what everyone talks about when they say they are hard to cast if you dont know how to spey cast...???

    either way im gonna keep at it, i know i will get it in a few more days of practice. its a pain though then every other aspect of casting a fly has came extremely easy for me.

    its not normal when i have had a fractured wrist for almost a year now with out if being fixed and i can still cast my single hand farther (with that fractured wrist) then i can a spey rod. thats just not right...when i already have what 50ftof line already out of the rod to load of that damn spey rod. LMFAO :rofl:

    you guys are great and all the info is taking very seriously. and its much needed. and when i finally get it down ill have to take a video for all to see lol...actually ill take one on my next outing so you all can get a good laugh :D
     
  7. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    I'm taking a break from being a jerk, so I’m going to relate this the best way I can. Your apparent natural ability to excel at casting is suspect to me. You stated earlier that you were out casting your buddy (who had been flyfishing for 20 yrs) within an hour, or something like that. In my mind, this is impossible. Sure you can have a natural ability to be a good caster, but experience and practice is the only thing that can make you as great as you sound. So either your buddy is like 90, or he has flyfished 10 times in those twenty years. I'm not saying you don't have a natural ability to cast, just that you seem to have set yourself up for failure via unrealistic expectations.... hence the spey rod. I think many who have been at this for awhile will agree on this: I've been casting for 25 years and am still not a great caster. I have a lot to learn. If I thought I had figured it all out, there wouldn't be any need to go on, which is what flyfishing so alluring and exciting. Perhaps flyfishing is not a big enough challenge for you. Maybe long bow hunting?:confused: I'm not calling you out, I'm just trying to make sense of your words and stated conflict.:)
     
  8. Kevin Giusti

    Kevin Giusti New Member

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    I agree with panhandle. Ive been flyfishing for quite a few years and while I consider myself an OK caster I am by NO MEANS an expert, nor will I ever be!! I constantly try to improve my casting and am always learning, and hope to keep learning and improving forever. I thought I was a pretty good single hand caster until I learned to spey cast. Only then did I realize the true meaniing of LET THE ROD DO THE WORK! With a single hander you can kinda bang it out there and get a good amount of line out although it may not be a nice tight efficient and effortless cast. In spey casting it is essential to let the rod do the work. Two handed rods have a TON of power and the casters job is to make smooth movements throughout all parts of the casting stroke. Bring that rod and line through the correct paths and planes and there she goes, with little effort. The rod truly does the work. My single handed casting has improved GREATLY since learning spey casting. What line or style of line were you casting on the switch rod? I would suggest trying a similar style line on your spey. As far as tips its hard to say since I dont know the problems you are having as there are MANY that could be going on, spoken from personal experience. But in general I would say try to take your top hand out of the power application, the majority of the power on the forward stroke should be applied with the LOWER HAND. A nice smooth acceleration to a high stop using the lower hand predominatly. If you think you are using to much top hand lower your upper hand on the grip, this will force you to use your lower hand more may feel awkward but you may notice your casting improving. Another thing is video tape yourself casting. This allows you to see and notice things that you may not while casting.Anyway hope this helps and good luck. I think your first step should be facing the fact that even though you may be an ACE at picking up other things quickly in life that with spey casting you may have met your match. It may take you some time to figure this one out, as with the majority of people who have learned to spey cast. And it will certainly be a lifetime of learning. Kevin
     
  9. bankwalker

    bankwalker Member

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    well i never once said i was an expert...now did i? no...all of you know damn well having a rod, reel, and line that are balanced goes a very very very very long way in the sport. i could pick up your rod and not cast if farther then a cat can fart. idk...i got a setup that i excelled with and stuck with it.

    i learned to cast a single hand rod very quicker. quicker then most of you would ever dream...casting a fly rod is 90% timing plain and simple. you can know every little aspect of casting a fly rod. but if you dont have timing youll never get that fly past your feet.

    my problem is that when casting a single hand rod has came so easy. it sucks to get a spey rod and suck at it. and it really sucks when i can still use my single hand rod and out cast my spey casts...thats bullshit too me. it should be the other way around. i mean i already have 50ft of line out of the spey rod.

    weather anyone believes me or not. i really dont care. i guess you will have to run into me on the river and put me to the test :thumb: i wont disapoint.

    now then if you want to give me tips then bring them on. if you are gonna bad mouth me when i am having a serious problem...then just dont post. you are helping me at all and just further adding to the stereotype of up tight asshole fly fisherman.

    like your mom always said if you cant say anything nice then dont say anything at all.
     
  10. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    Come on dude, nobody is being mean here. In fact, if you read the posts without taking them personally, there is something to learn. That's the point, right? I mean, that's why you’re asking. Here, I'll make it quick and concise.

    You can outcast your spey with a single hander because you can't cast the spey rod. Nothing mysterious about that. Once you take the time to LEARN how to cast a 14 footer, like we've all had to do, then the opposite will be true. You seem inpatient and mad that you can't pick this thing up in 1 hour, which is absurd-- that's why I'm suggesting that something that takes time learn, may not be for you.
     
  11. Big Tuna

    Big Tuna Member

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    Sometimes I feel like I enter the Twilight Zone when I read these posts. The spey therapy ain't working. Adam, thanks for your restraint; I'm losing mine. Bankwalker, sell the stick. Fishing a two-handed rod isn't for you. Anyone who needs to be cajoled into practicing for longer than 11 hrs. before giving up just doesn't have the patience or the stamina for a technical and humbling sport. Maybe the switch will give you the instant gratification. Best of luck.
     
  12. Porter

    Porter Active Member

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    panhandle ....being nice :cool:

    Bankwalker.....with regards to spey casting you might need to walk a little to learn it. Somethings may come quick...other things not so quick....but usually it is always the fault of the user, because i have seen the worst set-ups in spey still be launced out there by ones who knew what they were doing.....and it kills me after they throw out a 100feet plus and turn and say this set-up sucks :p:p:p It's not all science...:thumb:
     
  13. bankwalker

    bankwalker Member

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    like i said in the beginning. i do not think spey is right for me...but i took everyones advice on everything and im keeping with it.

    im not a quitter...but come on. if you are use to learning shit fast and something comes along that you just can get the hang of and is taking ALOT longer to learn then any other thing you have tried. wouldnt you be a little bumbed...it seriously pisses me off.

    for one i have talked to every single fly shop in the area. they all recomended the line i have on my rod now...to learn with.

    WELL i used a 9wt line on the rod today and was actually able to cast the damn thing. so what does that tell me? absolutely nothing, cause using that heavy of a line on my rod does nothing but load my rod up extremely fast and really doesnt teach me ay form at all...i put my 7/8/9wt line back on and couldnt cast for crap again.

    i know i need to slow my rod down with the line i have to allow it to load up correctly and let the rod do the work. ive heard it from everyone.

    all i can say is step up and show me how...or at least loan me a line to learn with...cause obviously right now my setup is not setup good enough for me to learn.

    i bet almost all of you guys could pick up my rod and cast it a mile...but i sure in the hell cant.

    and as far as me not being able to out cast my spey rod with a single hand cause i cant cast a spey rod??? what is that. of course i can outcast my spey rod with a single hand rod...cause i CANT cast a spey rod. IF i could cast a spey rod i wouldnt be saying i could out cast the damn thing lol

    actually today was a very productive day, i sat down and thought of all the advice everyone has gave me. went out and barrowed my buddies reel and his 9wt short belly line and was launching the line out there like i actually ALMOST knew what i was doing. it felt very good. i tried my best to let the rod do the work and all that good stuff. and i felt that after 30 minutes of casting i had it down enough to cast my 7/8/9 line but i was wrong.
     
  14. bankwalker

    bankwalker Member

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    oh i know that...i never said it wasnt my fault. im sure its completely my fault i cant cast this setup. lol actually im 100% positive it is.
     
  15. bankwalker

    bankwalker Member

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    actually one huge ting i did notice today is that when i have the black "load up point" of the line where it should be to load the rod correctly i just cant cast it.

    if i have all the black section reeled up into the reel so there is only say 40ft of line out. i can spey cast it just fine. line lays down nice and straight and everything. and then i will work out about 3ft after each cast.

    but as soon as i get that black section about half in the rod guides and half out of the rod...i just cant cast it.

    i know im more then likely way over thinking it, my timing is way off, and more then likely my D-loop looks more like a sagging tripple h (if you know what i mean lmfao). but i dont see how 10ft of line makes that much of a difference. SO i must be moving the rod to fast and not allowing it to load up correctly if i can shoot the line out with less line out then when i have the correct amount of line out.

    and thanks to everyone and the advice, it is coming along. and i know i will get it in due time. ALTHOUGH i do expect to learn this shiat quickly, i know it will take time. but im still gonna complain about it cause its my spey rod and i will do as i please lmfao.

    as far as anyone being mean. i know everyone is giving positive advice. i was only refurring to panhandle and him saying me outcasting someone who has been flyfishing for 20yrs after only a few minutes of casting a fly rod. you dont know me, you do not who my buddie, you have not seen me cast a single hand rod. just cause you have a bunch of experience does not mean you can cast a mile, or you have perfect form. i by no means have perfect form. but yes i can cast a single hand rod very far although it may look like crap. and yes it only took me a matter of minutes to learn to cast a fly rod that far. nothing is impossible buddie expect catching a steelhead in a jar of butter. ive tried that ish and it was harder then casting a spey rod.

    so i apologize for taking some things a little to seriously. well actually im taking alot of things seriously more so towards the great advice and help you all have givin me. its much apreciated :beer2: