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Lower Quinault in 2014

12K views 88 replies 39 participants last post by  kamishak steve 
#1 ·
From The Evening Hatch's website:

"The Lower Quinault 2014 dates in Feb and March - More info soon on our new swing only program on the Lower Quinault - This exclusive program is very cool as we have teamed up with a Quinault Guide to show you some of the finest swing fishing for winter steelhead on the West coast."

An ironic juxtaposition to the bank-to-bank nets on the lower Queets.
 
#9 ·
I fished above the lake a few years back. Some great water but my skills at the time are not what they are now so landed nothing. Me and my youngest boy pounded the banks for just one afternoon.

I shall return there again some day.

Stew

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
 
#5 ·
Here's how to DIY the lower Quinault, parts of the Salmon, as well as the Raft river (oh, you've never heard of that? It's bobber water completely on tribal land that gets a small run of hatch dogs) without paying a non native guide a dime. Unless you're into paying someone another 10+% just for shits n' giggles, then by all means, ring the guy about this *exclusive* experience.

Go to the QN website http://www.quinaultindiannation.com/ to find a list of tribally licensed guides, give one a bell, and set a date. Not all guides fish all waters, or methods of fishing for that matter, so you'll have to sort that out over the phone. If you want to Cn'R possible wild fish, then talk about that over the phone because on some tribal boats, of it hits the net, it dies. You'll also need to have a tribal license as well which you can buy in Amanda park if you choose to stay near the lake, or in Taholah if you stay somewhere a long the 109.

The lower river has plenty of swing water (google map that shit!) and if you have a kid a long, or are into hooking steelhead like you're at a Fu**ing trout farm on your nymph gear rod, then you can go hook fish at the Salmon river hatchery or in Cook creek at the hatchery which is just off the Moclips Highway/ BIA rd S-26. The Cook creek set up is shown on google maps as well, so search it out to help orient yourself with the area.

If you want to check references for any of the guides, go to everyones fav gear site, www.piscatorialpursuits.com and search the guides name. Lots of dudes on their go slay big Coho/whatevs with Letty, Fred, whoever. I could also suggest gamefishin, but most people on here can rub enough brain cells together to at least create a little bit of heat, and that place is full of...o.k., lets just say you've been warned.

My .02 is that You really shouldn't fish with the tribe without knowing about their modern or current impact on native fisheries, so I'd also suggest doing some research on that. A start: http://www.fws.gov/quinaultnfh/

Something you'll want to familiarize yourself with too is the state regs with fish in the Salmon, or strays, as sometimes tribal fish are miss clips, they'll have a pectoral or ventral fin missing, or my fav is measuring the dorsal height. It's legit to bonk anything you want on tribal land, hence my advice on understanding the regs because some of you may be cool with fishing there, yet not want to kill possible native fish.

Just a thought, but I don't understand how a guide can support the Native fish society, and the Wild Steelhead Coalition, yet turn around and support a system/program where the people that run it, pretty much do whatever the hell they want in regards to native fish.
 
#6 ·
From The Evening Hatch's website:

"The Lower Quinault 2014 dates in Feb and March - More info soon on our new swing only program on the Lower Quinault - This exclusive program is very cool as we have teamed up with a Quinault Guide to show you some of the finest swing fishing for winter steelhead on the West coast."
that quote pretty much symbolizes everything wrong with the fly fishing industry in washington state. anybody who supports anything quinault related is absolutely against wild steelhead on the olympic peninsula.

sickening.....
 
#11 ·
Quite frankly, I'm surprised nobody had cracked into this market sooner. It'll be interesting to see what kind of response this gets outside of the conservation angle.

To play devil's advocate, it might not be a terrible thing to have more C&R fly angling traffic on the lower river. Perhaps at the moment any of the natives that might see potential in expanding a C&R sport fishery on the lower rivers and that support conservation measures find it difficult to gain any traction within the current status quo. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but allowing the tribe to see increased value in sport fishing for steelhead could be beneficial in the long term. Hell, it can't be any worse than what currently goes on out there...simply ignoring them and refusing to show the value of "alternative uses" for their steelhead probably won't change anything for the better.

I guess after many years I've come full circle and decided to take a "glass half-full" perspective on the situation because the alternative is so depressing.
 
#12 ·
Quite frankly, I'm surprised nobody had cracked into this market sooner. It'll be interesting to see what kind of response this gets outside of the conservation angle.

To play devil's advocate, it might not be a terrible thing to have more C&R fly angling traffic on the lower river. Perhaps at the moment any of the natives that might see potential in expanding a C&R sport fishery on the lower rivers and that support conservation measures find it difficult to gain any traction within the current status quo. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but allowing the tribe to see increased value in sport fishing for steelhead could be beneficial in the long term. Hell, it can't be any worse than what currently goes on out there...simply ignoring them and refusing to show the value of "alternative uses" for their steelhead probably won't change anything for the better.

I guess after many years I've come full circle and decided to take a "glass half-full" perspective on the situation because the alternative is so depressing.
I suppose this is a pretty good way to look at it. I'll hold back and see how it goes and if there's any hope of influencing the culture of what goes on out there.
 
#13 ·
Alrighty, I got some inside info.

The guy who is doing the guiding for them sounds like the real deal. He sees the fish as a way more valuable thing not in the nets. He wants to see a cultural change with the younger generations out there, and is planning to start teaching them to use fly rods to catch steelhead, and hope to show them the value of the fish.

Seems pretty cool on the side of the tribal guide. My initial reaction was negative, but that's easy to do on touchy subjects like this.
 
#14 ·
Alrighty, I got some inside info.

The guy who is doing the guiding for them sounds like the real deal. He sees the fish as a way more valuable thing not in the nets. He wants to see a cultural change with the younger generations out there, and is planning to start teach them out to use fly rods to catch steelhead, and hope to show them the value of the fish.

Seems pretty cool on the side of the tribal guide. My initial reaction was negative, but that's easy to do on touchy subjects like this.
Good cause and, pigosaurus steelhead on the swing? OK, that could be cool. Especially if they control the pressure on the fishery.
 
#16 ·
This is great, and hopefully us non-tribal anglers take them up on it. Governor Stevens and Judge Boldt gave the tribes a legal right to harvest their quota in traditional places, and as backwards and unethical as their methods might be, all the rants, comments and fishings forums in the world arnt making that go away.

What will take the nets out is a viable economic alternative that pays more than dead steelhead (or chum eggs).
 
#17 ·
The nets aren't coming out on the Quinault, regardless of how much money Tribal guides make guiding non-Indian fishermen, no matter how many steelhead you catch and release (officially the Tribe spurns the very concept of CNR). Certain Tribal members will never become fishing guides, regardless of any inherent lack of social and business skills. They have inherited fishing rights at specific set net sites, and that is what they do, and will continue to do. Thinking a group of conservation-minded fly fishermen might lead the way through example to a "better" fishery conservation outcome is the height of cultural misunderstanding and failure. All they want from you, at most, is your money.

The Tribe has already decided their science through policy decision that wild and hatchery fish are the same. They practice selective breeding of steelhead. They net fish at hatchery stock fishing rates. And wild native steelhead are in a world of hurt in the Quinault basin as a result.

Sg
 
#27 ·
The nets aren't coming out on the Quinault, regardless of how much money Tribal guides make guiding non-Indian fishermen, no matter how many steelhead you catch and release (officially the Tribe spurns the very concept of CNR). Certain Tribal members will never become fishing guides, regardless of any inherent lack of social and business skills. They have inherited fishing rights at specific set net sites, and that is what they do, and will continue to do. Thinking a group of conservation-minded fly fishermen might lead the way through example to a "better" fishery conservation outcome is the height of cultural misunderstanding and failure. All they want from you, at most, is your money.

The Tribe has already decided their science through policy decision that wild and hatchery fish are the same. They practice selective breeding of steelhead. They net fish at hatchery stock fishing rates. And wild native steelhead are in a world of hurt in the Quinault basin as a result.

Sg
This is the sad, but realistic truth. Most of the tribal fishermen whom I know despise catch and release sports fishing, and the fishermen who practice it. It is also unrealistic to say that adding more fishing, even catch & release fishing, to the lower Quinault River wild winter steelhead run, and especially the later winter run fish, will in any be beneficial to the remaining few wlld steelhead returning there. I see this as a sad example and symptom of just how bad things have gotten for our wild fish out here. And a sad testament to fly fishing ethics and conservation in general.
 
#18 ·
Sg, I agree with you that if we ever expect the tribes to give up their right to catch fish, we are living in a dreamer's world. And my experience with the tribes' philosophy/concept on C&R is the same as yours. However, the last sentence of your first paragraph gives me hope. If we can show them that there COULD be more money in steelhead fishing (and letting wild fish go), then that, with time, might be the way to initiate a change in their attitude toward C&R fishing.

My brother called me for a Thanksgiving chat. Although he has probably only sport fished less than a dozen days in his life, he has commercial fished Alaska for years and is now running a tuna boat over south of Hawaii. He regularly runs down to Christmas Island (I'm trying to figure out an economical way to fish down there but its difficult) from Hawaii. Many of his crew are natives from Christmas Island and he commented on how much tourism dollars is brought there for guys looking to C&R bonefish, GT, etc. and is WAY more profitable than catching fish for food. He then turned the conversation to the Pacific Northwest and made the comment about how Native Americans would be better off selling sport fishing trips to anglers, rather than exercising their gill netting rights. He argued they would make more money, have less impact on the resource, and probably would not have to work as hard doing it. While I understand the tribes not wanting to give up their way of life in gill netting, most of what my brother said was right on and something that I have been stating for a long time.
 
#19 ·
Good cause and, pigosaurus steelhead on the swing? OK, that could be cool. Especially if they control the pressure on the fishery.
Their nets aren't coming out. Feel free to swing around them, but that's as far as they are going in regards to sport fishing. They may guide you up around a corner so you can't see them, though.

He then turned the conversation to the Pacific Northwest and made the comment about how Native Americans would be better off selling sport fishing trips to anglers, rather than exercising their gill netting rights. He argued they would make more money, have less impact on the resource, and probably would not have to work as hard doing it. While I understand the tribes not wanting to give up their way of life in gill netting, most of what my brother said was right on and something that I have been stating for a long time.
This isn't a new thought. The nets aren't coming out. Wasting my energy trying to influence them on a "better way" isn't going to happen either. Only way I can see anything changing is revisiting the Boldt decision which isn't going to happen. No politician will touch it because it isn't PC. Possibly thru a lawsuit by someone who's had enough of this BS but I don't see that happening either.

All the while the Queets gets netted 5 days a week from fall to spring. And that's only their "scheduled" days. Actual days are unknown because I'm sure there's some ceremony someone is exercising their rights on at any given day...... Not to mention the Chehalis system salmon being netted to oblivion.
 
#24 ·
This isn't a new thought. The nets aren't coming out.
No, I don't think the nets are coming out either but I was surprised to hear an individual who doesn't even really sport fish catch on to the same idea. I don't know if that means anything or not but the mere fact that non fishers even think that gives some hope that with educating the younger, next generation, perhaps ideas can be changed in the future.
 
#20 ·
The Quinaults message to sportsman is clear," come here, there are very few rules, kill whatever in the hell you want to." That crassness won't be changing.

I merely posted my 'how to' to help the fine folks on WFF avoid unnecessary costs and to get them to read up on the, well, whatever you'd call that style of fish management.
 
#25 ·
You may not change the mind of the older guys with the nets, but when you have a tribal member wanting to start getting groups of young kids together to teach them the fly rod, there's hope for some change down the road. Might be too little too late, but I sure don't have a better idea.
That's the best viewpoint to take at the moment as far as I'm concerned. Nobody here realistically thinks that netting will magically cease, fighting the Boldt decision is beating your head against a brick wall, and trying to change current netting practices is a giant waste of time, as we all know. I still feel like what's going on is a good thing though, and when the odds are overwhelmingly stacked against you, you've got to find hope in small victories. Trying to eliminate netting is such an overwhelming goal that it results in complete inaction. What is possible, though, is that some 13 year old Quinault kid is going to see more guys fly fishing the lower river and think "I'd like to do that"...fast forward 5 years and maybe he's swinging a run on the lower Quinault instead of exercising his right to drag a net across the entire river that day. If this guy is the real deal, and is serious about promoting that ethic within his community...more power to him. Get a few guys in that same boat and you've got a minor victory as far as I'm concerned. Probably naiveté, but what the hell, it's nice to think about. It clearly hasn't happened on the Hoh, but there's always a chance I suppose.
 
#30 ·
About a dozen years ago(but maybe it was only ten), when I was still in the early stages of healing my shoulder problems (impingement), I had to decline an invitation from a local who was a QIN tribal member to go fish the lower Quinault near Cook Creek. He had told me that I would have to bring along my chainsaw, as we would need to cut a shorter trail to his spot on the river, or else be forced to pack out "all those fish" a couple of miles. Not only was I in terrible shape to attempt any such endeavor, but my chainsaw was in bad need of maintenance, and it was short notice.
You don't get many opportunities like that in a lifetime. ;) Dang!
 
#35 ·
As a slight aside, the service mentioned by the OP appears to be be guiding the Snohomish as well. Probably a little "less guilty" Winter steelheading there. Maybe they'll do some Tokul creek walk-ins as well.

:D



(no rage now...I jest, I jest!)
 
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