NFR Matt Lauer firing and My feelings on the MeToo campaign

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Bimini15

Active Member
What large company did you run? I'm speaking from personal experience. With a large HR department I can guarantee you that no one in my organization was fired due to allegation of improper conduct. The figures start at $1M for wrongful termination. I'm sorry that your organization allowed this.
Congratulations on running a large HR above reproach. But please do realize that this also happens in places where victims have no HR like yours to speak to or resources to either fight harasment or prove a wrongful termitation. Harasment in the corporate world is only a part of it.
 
Dude even if a small fraction of the women have hidden agendas, do you really think we should be dismissing the topic all together? NO Do you not believe that for every woman gaming the system that there could be many many more that are real victims?MOST LIKELY
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However, I feel that the media is making this way too black and white. Its not. I believe in due process, and the allegations should be proven first before the media gets involved. Sorry if I am acting too much like a defense attorney, and I know that what I am saying is NOT popular among @Freestone but I mean no disrespect.
Is Weinstein guilty YES should he burn? YES. But, I feel the media is jumping on "some" of these guys way too quick and not allowing things to play out, and I fear that this will lead to people finding a way to make some easy $$$ cause hearsay will be perceived as " hey thats all i need" in some peoples minds.
Keep in mind too, and I want to be clear, my heart breaks for those that have been victimized by these proven allegations. Heck my wife is a victim of sexual abuse. So, do not group me in with those guys who down play the severity of the issue.
 
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However, I feel that the media is making this way too black and white. Its not. I believe in due process, and the allegations should be proven first before the media gets involved. Sorry if I am acting too much like a defense attorney, and I know that what I am saying is NOT popular among @Freestone but I mean no disrespect.
Is Weinstein guilty YES should he burn? YES. But, I feel the media is jumping on "some" of these guys way too quick and not allowing things to play out, and I fear that this will lead to people finding a way to make some easy $$$ cause hearsay will be perceived as " hey thats all i need" in some peoples minds.
Keep in mind too, and I want to be clear, my heart breaks for those that have been victimized by these proven allegations. Heck my wife is a victim of sexual abuse. So, do not group me in with those guys who down play the severity of the issue.
I think if you would have said that to begin with you wouldn't have seen much/any disagreement.
 

wadin' boot

Donny, you're out of your element...
Dan I think you will find over the next few years the organization of sites that aggregate abuse reports. So when an employer does a background check they can ping that site. Maybe the ping returns one complaint and the HR team thinks no big deal, we'll keep an eye on it. Or the ping comes back with 12 complaints from 12 different people all of them time stamped close to the abuse and from different job situations, you better believe they should sit way the hell up and question the applicant's integrity and ability to work in a productive manner without exposing their other employees to risk/misery. Similarly when it comes to a flagrant assault, the character of the assailant can be put in context very quickly.

What's remarkable about folks having a problem with this is they seem to think that the number of women making false accusations is high. It's kinda the same thinking that straight guys assume a gay man is going to hit on them. It says way more about the person saying that crap than what actually happens. I've always had the working assumption that the vast majority of men are not desired by the vast majority of women (or men) and that true intimacy is hard won, often not of a sexual nature, and is earned through shared experiences and the grace that comes from dealing with situations that are adverse or challenging.

Probably the same reasons I can count my close friends on the one hand.
 
What's remarkable about folks having a problem with this is they seem to think that the number of women making false accusations is high. It's kinda the same thinking that straight guys assume a gay man is going to hit on them. It says way more about the person saying that crap than what actually happens. I've always had the working assumption that the vast majority of men are not desired by the vast majority of women (or men) and that true intimacy is hard won, often not of a sexual nature, and is earned through shared experiences and the grace that comes from dealing with situations that are adverse or challenging.
I've only been noticeably checked out at work once....and it was by a dude. :oops: Whatever, I'll take it as a compliment...that guy thought I was hot as hell! haha That or I had some TP hanging out of my pants. :p I 100% agree that most woman do not desire most men....no matter how good looking you think you are fellas.
 

jamma

Active Member
Dude even if a small fraction of the women have hidden agendas, do you really think we should be dismissing the topic all together? Do you not believe that for every woman gaming the system that there could be many many more that are real victims?
I would like to share a incident I witnessed that illustrates the blurred lines and hidden agendas that can occur in the workplace.A male and female coworkers were horsing around,whenever she bent over he would goose her.She would stand up and start laughing and not once did I ever see her say"stop doing that"or indeed show any offence at all.Later she apparently had a change of heart and took her concerns to a union steward who was a personal friend(I do not know if they had a relationship outside of work but it would not have surprised me)and they basically set him up to catch him in the act and he lost his job over it.Now,was his behavior inappropriate?Certainly, and I told him as much,but the way it was handled disturbed me.
Concerning my own personal workplace relationships,I am not a particularly social animal therefore it was the only place where I could meet women.The one advantage being when you work with someone,you get a chance to know each other before starting a relationship.Met some really nice ladies that I love to this day but as these relationships dissolved I learned that this situation was not ideal and resolved not to enter into any more.Probably explains why I have a soft spot in my head for brassy women with little or no filter.They're honest and you always know where you stand with them.One such lady made advances toward me but my boundaries lead me to not act on them.I sometimes wonder if I made the right choice.
 
I would like to share a incident I witnessed that illustrates the blurred lines and hidden agendas that can occur in the workplace.A male and female coworkers were horsing around,whenever she bent over he would goose her.She would stand up and start laughing and not once did I ever see her say"stop doing that"or indeed show any offence at all.Later she apparently had a change of heart and took her concerns to a union steward who was a personal friend(I do not know if they had a relationship outside of work but it would not have surprised me)and they basically set him up to catch him in the act and he lost his job over it.Now,was his behavior inappropriate?Certainly, and I told him as much,but the way it was handled disturbed me.
Concerning my own personal workplace relationships,I am not a particularly social animal therefore it was the only place where I could meet women.The one advantage being when you work with someone,you get a chance to know each other before starting a relationship.Met some really nice ladies that I love to this day but as these relationships dissolved I learned that this situation was not ideal and resolved not to enter into any more.Probably explains why I have a soft spot in my head for brassy women with little or no filter.They're honest and you always know where you stand with them.One such lady made advances toward me but my boundaries lead me to not act on them.I sometimes wonder if I made the right choice.
I'd a went for it.
 

gofish101

Active Member
I would like to share a incident I witnessed that illustrates the blurred lines and hidden agendas that can occur in the workplace.A male and female coworkers were horsing around,whenever she bent over he would goose her.She would stand up and start laughing and not once did I ever see her say"stop doing that"or indeed show any offence at all.Later she apparently had a change of heart and took her concerns to a union steward who was a personal friend(I do not know if they had a relationship outside of work but it would not have surprised me)and they basically set him up to catch him in the act and he lost his job over it.Now,was his behavior inappropriate.
I don't see the blur. He made a poor choice to horse around with her at work and paid the price. I would never have done anything like that. When I go to work I am expected to act in a professional nature, not to play around or try to score with co-workers. This is not rocket science.
 
It's definitely changed the workplace. I manage both women and men.
I would never, ever give any kind of personal compliment regarding looks or personality to any employee, man or woman. But especially women.
It's just not worth the risk anymore. I smile,say good morning, how are you. And that's it. Otherwise business only. I always, always have another female in my office with me whenever I need to have a meeting with a female employee.

I had to go to classes on how to interact with women in the workplace when I was hired for management.

It's serious shit unfortunately........
 
I would like to share a incident I witnessed that illustrates the blurred lines and hidden agendas that can occur in the workplace.A male and female coworkers were horsing around,whenever she bent over he would goose her.She would stand up and start laughing and not once did I ever see her say"stop doing that"or indeed show any offence at all.Later she apparently had a change of heart and took her concerns to a union steward who was a personal friend(I do not know if they had a relationship outside of work but it would not have surprised me)and they basically set him up to catch him in the act and he lost his job over it.Now,was his behavior inappropriate?Certainly, and I told him as much,but the way it was handled disturbed me.
Concerning my own personal workplace relationships,I am not a particularly social animal therefore it was the only place where I could meet women.The one advantage being when you work with someone,you get a chance to know each other before starting a relationship.Met some really nice ladies that I love to this day but as these relationships dissolved I learned that this situation was not ideal and resolved not to enter into any more.Probably explains why I have a soft spot in my head for brassy women with little or no filter.They're honest and you always know where you stand with them.One such lady made advances toward me but my boundaries lead me to not act on them.I sometimes wonder if I made the right choice.
I'm confused by your story. Women behave differently. Seems obvious to me, but if a guy is grabbed inappropriately we usually will respond with a similar rebuke (like a blow to the teeth) or at least a good yellfest. Most women are more passive and frankly often shocked by aggressive behavior. Women will laugh when they feel uncomfortable. This is not approval. They often try to deflect and try to diffuse the situation and avoid a scene.

Had that guy worked for me, I would have fired his ass on the spot and marched his sorry butt to the door - no investigation involved. There is NEVER a good reason to play grab-ass with anyone, let alone the opposite sex in a public arena. I am not sure what you are defending here, but unless she was grabbing his ass, wherein she should also be fired, there is absolutely no gray area here. Her decision to wait, get an authority involved, and let them handle it, is precisely the right thing to do. Your presumption, devoid of factual evidence (your words), that she was sleeping with the authority is exactly the Neanderthal response most women face when they do report an incident.

Here are women's choices in most cases:

Report it and be accused of sleeping with the boss (authority) or,
Report it and be accused of just trying to ruin some "great guy" or,
Don't report it and be accused of being easy (she asked for it) and thereby gives permission to all the other asshats in the company or,
Confront the guy angrily (if she smiles it's consent) and be called a bitch.

What is remarkable is that most women navigate these waters with enviable grace.
 

jasmillo

Active Member
I would like to share a incident I witnessed that illustrates the blurred lines and hidden agendas that can occur in the workplace.A male and female coworkers were horsing around,whenever she bent over he would goose her.She would stand up and start laughing and not once did I ever see her say"stop doing that"or indeed show any offence at all.Later she apparently had a change of heart and took her concerns to a union steward who was a personal friend(I do not know if they had a relationship outside of work but it would not have surprised me)and they basically set him up to catch him in the act and he lost his job over it.Now,was his behavior inappropriate?Certainly, and I told him as much,but the way it was handled disturbed me.
Concerning my own personal workplace relationships,I am not a particularly social animal therefore it was the only place where I could meet women.The one advantage being when you work with someone,you get a chance to know each other before starting a relationship.Met some really nice ladies that I love to this day but as these relationships dissolved I learned that this situation was not ideal and resolved not to enter into any more.Probably explains why I have a soft spot in my head for brassy women with little or no filter.They're honest and you always know where you stand with them.One such lady made advances toward me but my boundaries lead me to not act on them.I sometimes wonder if I made the right choice.
This is a great example of why dudes just keep getting in trouble. This is creepy behavior, how do you not see that? Don’t be a creep, keep it professional and all will be fine.

My wife now works in my office albeit a dozen or so floors away. Nevertheless, if she bent over in front of me in the office, I would not “goose” her. It’s not professional...ever, whether you are in a relationship with the person or not.

If you are in a work environment...guess what, keep it professional with all your encounters. If you are single (or not) and a male or female is flirting with you in the office...what should you do...all at once - keep it professional.

Not saying you cannot have personal conversation with people. If you manage people, you’ll understand that personal matters effect ones professional capabilities on a long and short term basis. Keep it professional though. I don’t have to spell it out. Everyone know what that means.

Christ. This is not rocket science.
 
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