NFR Matt Lauer firing and My feelings on the MeToo campaign

Status
Not open for further replies.
Why do you need to touch anyone at work? Especially in an office environment. Maybe I'm not in the right kind of power hungry industry, but I don't think it's that hard to remain appropriate and to not cross harassment boundaries. It's also pretty hard to take anything you say on the topic seriously with that avatar. If you decorate your office walls in a similar fashion, then I'm not surprised you have a hard time figuring out what is and is not appropriate at work.
@mtskibum16 - no where did I say anything that touching was appropriate at work.
 
Last edited:

Tracker

Active Member
.
However, I feel that the media is making this way too black and white. Its not. I believe in due process, and the allegations should be proven first before the media gets involved. Sorry if I am acting too much like a defense attorney, and I know that what I am saying is NOT popular among @Freestone but I mean no disrespect.
Is Weinstein guilty YES should he burn? YES. But, I feel the media is jumping on "some" of these guys way too quick and not allowing things to play out, and I fear that this will lead to people finding a way to make some easy $$$ cause hearsay will be perceived as " hey thats all i need" in some peoples minds.
Keep in mind too, and I want to be clear, my heart breaks for those that have been victimized by these proven allegations. Heck my wife is a victim of sexual abuse. So, do not group me in with those guys who down play the severity of the issue.
The media don't have rules you silly wabbit!!!!
 

Trapper

Author, Writer, Photographer
I think a lot of women have been abused by men in power. (As a Vietnam Vet I also think of the 60,000 KIA, and hundreds of thousands of Vets who weren’t killed in Vietnam, were also badly abused by men in power.) Trump bragged to the world it was a privilege of the wealthy and powerful. I think some women are now saying, “F**k this! Enough is enough.”

The subject is now big news. There will be consequences; some good, some not so good.

Every year since 2011 I’ve cooked for an Archeology dig. The diggers are College students. Some male, some female. I have helpers. I insisted all helpers, male or female work in pairs. I didnt want a 20 year old female alone in the tent with me.

My morning routine was to build a fire in the woodstove and make coffee. The Archeology Professor, Lauri, came in shortly after. We had coffee together and talked about all sorts of things. Now, the thought occurs to me; should I stop this practice? It would be a shame because I enjoyed these conversations and I know she did too.

I’ve decided to continue the practice.

Am I naive to brush the risk aside?

Trapper
 
I think a lot of women have been abused by men in power. (As a Vietnam Vet I also think of the 60,
My morning routine was to build a fire in the woodstove and make coffee. The Archeology Professor, Lauri, came in shortly after. We had coffee together and talked about all sorts of things. Now, the thought occurs to me; should I stop this practice? It would be a shame because I enjoyed these conversations and I know she did too.

I’ve decided to continue the practice.

Am I naive to brush the risk aside?

Trapper
Since you are not in a position of power and are not an abuser your risk is low. False accusations are usually in pursuit of money or power. Just make sure you are not falling for each other unless you are both single and willing. You can even develop romantic relationships with co-workers as long as you don't have a supervisory relationship. HR can usually change the reporting structure if necessary (that's just general info and not directed at your situation).
 
Last edited:

dld

Active Member
I would like to share a incident I witnessed that illustrates the blurred lines and hidden agendas that can occur in the workplace.A male and female coworkers were horsing around,whenever she bent over he would goose her.She would stand up and start laughing and not once did I ever see her say"stop doing that"or indeed show any offence at all.Later she apparently had a change of heart and took her concerns to a union steward who was a personal friend(I do not know if they had a relationship outside of work but it would not have surprised me)and they basically set him up to catch him in the act and he lost his job over it.Now,was his behavior inappropriate?Certainly, and I told him as much,but the way it was handled disturbed me..
Sorry, but if that example illustrates 'blurred lines and hidden agendas', I'm a magical being from the seventh dimension.

The number of times it is appropriate to 'goose' someone is zero. The number it takes to become sexual assault is 1. That is an actual legitimate crime. There was a guy a couple of years ago doing that at Greenlake, it made the news and they arrested the guy.

The woman was, as was mentioned, perhaps, laughing due to embarrassment or shock, or maybe simply because she couldn't believe that another coworker didn't stop the dude. I don't advocate violence, but if I saw someone do that to a coworker, I wouldn't be far from delivering an Irish kiss (headbutt).
 
"A male and female coworkers were horsing around,whenever she bent over he would goose her.She would stand up and start laughing and not once did I ever see her say"stop doing that"or indeed show any offence at all.Later she apparently had a change of heart."

If it was consensual, i.e. she liked him and thought it was cool and flirted back, they should both be reprimanded and told to knock it off at work. If it's not, he goes out the door immediately. Can't imagine how anyone would think that is acceptable behavior.
 

Trapper

Author, Writer, Photographer
Since you are not in a position of power and are not an abuser your risk is low. False accusations are usually in pursuit of money or power. Just make sure you are not falling for each other unless you are both single and willing. You can even develop romantic relationships with co-workers as long as you don't have a supervisory relationship. HR can usually change the reporting structure if necessary (that's just general info and not directed at your situation).
Thanks. That’s reassuring.

In this capacity I’m a subcontractor hired by the USFS and the college where she teaches. She and I are friends and there is zero romantic between us. We meet for coffee sometimes but it’s always work related to discuss details of the next dig.

I find Archeology fascinating and I’m seriously considering taking one of her classes this Spring.

I haven’t worked a “real job” in 20 years. So I’m unfamiliar with the current climate and rules of conduct regarding sexual harrassment. Common sense answers many questions, like the one example of gooseing a female cooworker. But I find myself pondering whether I should modify some situations in the future.

Last summer I had a female helper at a lodge in Alaska. She had broken up with her boyfriend and at one point she started crying and hugged me. I Hugged her back out of sympathy.

I sure hope this type of fatherly gesture doesn’t get labed as predatory behavior. It seems to me we’re a micron distance away from that.

Trapper
 

Jojo

Active Member
@dld .... YES! We women do laugh when we don't mean to. And we also try to minimize the discomfort and embarrassment by ignoring it. I wish you were around when i was dealing with some of these co-workers!

I was going through a divorce in my late 20's while working as a secretary in the school district. I rented a place above a realty company and many of the male teachers helped me out. The woodshop teacher built me a shelf in my tiny apartment for storage. Another guy helped me move my heavier furniture upstairs. Two other guys brought me a little TV when they found out i didn't have one - All guys just being really nice since i was living alone.

And then there was this one teacher. Besides teaching his specialty was working on cars. Most people at the school where i worked hired him to fix their vehicles.

One snowy day about a mile from my place my truck broke down. And i had it towed to my place so worried that it was going to be major repair. I called this teacher and that evening he came out to look at it. I was so thankful when it turned out to only be spark plugs.

So as he's putting in new ones I asked how much i owed him. And here's what he said: While keeping his head down, still rooting around in my truck's engine, he replied "How about a trip upstairs?" I heard him perfectly but ignored it and whipped out my checkbook and with my pen poised i repeated the question. His response? "$35".

I didn't let him know at the time (again minimizing) but was so pissed off - not only that he had to audacity to believe i would actually pay him in sex but that he thought a trip upstairs was worth only $35.

I was also mad at myself because i should have known better as he had a reputation for being creepy to women and had said inappropriate things to me in the past. But i didn't have much money and i figured he would be cheaper than going to a mechanic's shop.

I really wish i could go back in time and do some things differently.
 

jamma

Active Member
The two points I wanted to make:
1)That she did nothing to discourage the behavior(and no,it was not nervous or embarrassed laughter,she was enjoying the joke until it apparently got old for her)and
2)the steward conspired with her against a fellow employee which is just wrong for a union representative.I repeat,in no way did I find this acceptable behavior.The correct way to handle the situation would have been for the three of them to discuss the situation and clear the air about what is or isn't acceptable.
 
Last edited:

gofish101

Active Member
The two points I wanted to make:
1)That she did nothing to discourage the behavior(and no,it was not nervous or embarrassed laughter,she was enjoying the joke until it apparently got old for her)and
2)the steward conspired with her against a fellow employee which is just wrong for a union representative.I repeat,in no way did I find this acceptable behavior.The correct way to handle the situation would have been for the three of them to discuss the situation and clear the air about was is or isn't acceptable.
Had he not "goosed" her everything after that would not have happened. What your saying sounds like you or he are trying to deflect from the original screw up. He has to take responsibility for his actions and whether he feels it was handled correctly or or not is irrelevant.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.