Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Jojo, Nov 29, 2017.
@mtskibum16 - no where did I say anything that touching was appropriate at work.
The media don't have rules you silly wabbit!!!!
So it seems to me that there is a couple more guys getting accused every day. Which leads me to wonder if those that are guilty but have not yet been publicly accused are getting any sleep at nights.
I think a lot of women have been abused by men in power. (As a Vietnam Vet I also think of the 60,000 KIA, and hundreds of thousands of Vets who weren’t killed in Vietnam, were also badly abused by men in power.) Trump bragged to the world it was a privilege of the wealthy and powerful. I think some women are now saying, “F**k this! Enough is enough.”
The subject is now big news. There will be consequences; some good, some not so good.
Every year since 2011 I’ve cooked for an Archeology dig. The diggers are College students. Some male, some female. I have helpers. I insisted all helpers, male or female work in pairs. I didnt want a 20 year old female alone in the tent with me.
My morning routine was to build a fire in the woodstove and make coffee. The Archeology Professor, Lauri, came in shortly after. We had coffee together and talked about all sorts of things. Now, the thought occurs to me; should I stop this practice? It would be a shame because I enjoyed these conversations and I know she did too.
I’ve decided to continue the practice.
Am I naive to brush the risk aside?
If you had been harassed or abused, and were afraid to come forward before, now WOULD seem like the time to do it. There is strength in numbers.
Since you are not in a position of power and are not an abuser your risk is low. False accusations are usually in pursuit of money or power. Just make sure you are not falling for each other unless you are both single and willing. You can even develop romantic relationships with co-workers as long as you don't have a supervisory relationship. HR can usually change the reporting structure if necessary (that's just general info and not directed at your situation).
Sorry, but if that example illustrates 'blurred lines and hidden agendas', I'm a magical being from the seventh dimension.
The number of times it is appropriate to 'goose' someone is zero. The number it takes to become sexual assault is 1. That is an actual legitimate crime. There was a guy a couple of years ago doing that at Greenlake, it made the news and they arrested the guy.
The woman was, as was mentioned, perhaps, laughing due to embarrassment or shock, or maybe simply because she couldn't believe that another coworker didn't stop the dude. I don't advocate violence, but if I saw someone do that to a coworker, I wouldn't be far from delivering an Irish kiss (headbutt).
"A male and female coworkers were horsing around,whenever she bent over he would goose her.She would stand up and start laughing and not once did I ever see her say"stop doing that"or indeed show any offence at all.Later she apparently had a change of heart."
If it was consensual, i.e. she liked him and thought it was cool and flirted back, they should both be reprimanded and told to knock it off at work. If it's not, he goes out the door immediately. Can't imagine how anyone would think that is acceptable behavior.
Thanks. That’s reassuring.
In this capacity I’m a subcontractor hired by the USFS and the college where she teaches. She and I are friends and there is zero romantic between us. We meet for coffee sometimes but it’s always work related to discuss details of the next dig.
I find Archeology fascinating and I’m seriously considering taking one of her classes this Spring.
I haven’t worked a “real job” in 20 years. So I’m unfamiliar with the current climate and rules of conduct regarding sexual harrassment. Common sense answers many questions, like the one example of gooseing a female cooworker. But I find myself pondering whether I should modify some situations in the future.
Last summer I had a female helper at a lodge in Alaska. She had broken up with her boyfriend and at one point she started crying and hugged me. I Hugged her back out of sympathy.
I sure hope this type of fatherly gesture doesn’t get labed as predatory behavior. It seems to me we’re a micron distance away from that.
@dld .... YES! We women do laugh when we don't mean to. And we also try to minimize the discomfort and embarrassment by ignoring it. I wish you were around when i was dealing with some of these co-workers!
I was going through a divorce in my late 20's while working as a secretary in the school district. I rented a place above a realty company and many of the male teachers helped me out. The woodshop teacher built me a shelf in my tiny apartment for storage. Another guy helped me move my heavier furniture upstairs. Two other guys brought me a little TV when they found out i didn't have one - All guys just being really nice since i was living alone.
And then there was this one teacher. Besides teaching his specialty was working on cars. Most people at the school where i worked hired him to fix their vehicles.
One snowy day about a mile from my place my truck broke down. And i had it towed to my place so worried that it was going to be major repair. I called this teacher and that evening he came out to look at it. I was so thankful when it turned out to only be spark plugs.
So as he's putting in new ones I asked how much i owed him. And here's what he said: While keeping his head down, still rooting around in my truck's engine, he replied "How about a trip upstairs?" I heard him perfectly but ignored it and whipped out my checkbook and with my pen poised i repeated the question. His response? "$35".
I didn't let him know at the time (again minimizing) but was so pissed off - not only that he had to audacity to believe i would actually pay him in sex but that he thought a trip upstairs was worth only $35.
I was also mad at myself because i should have known better as he had a reputation for being creepy to women and had said inappropriate things to me in the past. But i didn't have much money and i figured he would be cheaper than going to a mechanic's shop.
I really wish i could go back in time and do some things differently.
Don't let that get in the way, the HR fella doesn't hold down a real job either.
The two points I wanted to make:
1)That she did nothing to discourage the behavior(and no,it was not nervous or embarrassed laughter,she was enjoying the joke until it apparently got old for her)and
2)the steward conspired with her against a fellow employee which is just wrong for a union representative.I repeat,in no way did I find this acceptable behavior.The correct way to handle the situation would have been for the three of them to discuss the situation and clear the air about what is or isn't acceptable.
Had he not "goosed" her everything after that would not have happened. What your saying sounds like you or he are trying to deflect from the original screw up. He has to take responsibility for his actions and whether he feels it was handled correctly or or not is irrelevant.