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Methow River to close Sept. 18 to all fishing

9K views 95 replies 41 participants last post by  gone johnson 
#1 ·
Better change your plans if you were hoping to fish the Methow this month as it closes on Thursday. Too many steelhead were caught during the trout season and the federal ESA permit that allows the trout season required that it be closed. I commend WDFW for closing it and putting endangered steelhead recovery first. Thanks! :thumb:

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Methow River to close Sept. 18 to all fishing

OLYMPIA - The Methow River will close to fishing Thursday (Sept. 18), the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) announced today.

The early closure of the catch-and-release fishery, which was originally scheduled to run through Sept. 30, is necessary to avoid additional incidental catch of protected wild steelhead, said Bob Leland, WDFW steelhead program manager.

The fishery, which is directed at resident trout, is allowed under a federal permit that prescribes strict limits on the incidental catch of wild steelhead, listed as endangered under the federal Endangered Species Act (ESA).

"Over the last couple of weeks, we've seen a rise in the number of steelhead in the river, as well as a significant increase in anglers participating in the fishery," Leland said. "With that combination, we quickly reached the catch-and-release fishery's ESA limit for incidentally caught wild steelhead, necessitating the closure."

Leland said fishery managers are assessing the steelhead return to the region, and based upon wild and hatchery returns could open a fishery in the next few weeks for hatchery steelhead on portions of the upper Columbia River and some tributaries, including the Methow River. That hatchery steelhead fishery would be allowed under a separate federal permit.

Anglers should check for updates on fishing seasons on WDFW's website at http://wdfw.wa.gov/fish/regs/fishregs.htm.
 
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#42 ·
I applaud WDFW's move with the hope that it will help maintain chances of having an opener in October. That said, have there be that many incidental or deliberate catches of steelhead this or last month? The few people I know that have fished there over the past couple of weeks have not touched any.
 
#48 ·
Woodway, I am sorry but I believe you are wrong. The permit does not allow a fishery for ESA-listed endangered fish, only some amount of incidental take (accidental catching) while fishing for other un-listed species. Look at the title of the permit below…it is a permit for UNLISTED fish only (non-ESA listed, non-endangered fish).

Permit Number: 1554
Permit Type: Incidental Take
Program Name: Recreational Fisheries for Unlisted Species in the Middle and Upper Columbia River and its Tributaries

The permit allows the incidental take (accidental catching) of steelhead and Chinook while fishing for other fish, not the intentional take or intentional targeting of steelhead and chinook. Intentional take (catching/targeting) is illegal and the permit does not give WDFW permission for an open season on endangered steelhead or chinook. Since Federal Law trumps state law, WDFW is wrong to publish anything that appears to authorize a season on endangered fish because they have no such authority. Anyone intentionally targeting endangered steelhead or Chinook is in violation of Federal Law and actually state law, which also makes it a crime - no matter what the Rules Pamphet* says. In some circumstances, it is a Felony not just a ticket. But somehow, we're supposed to just know all this so I know one rule change I will be suggesting this year!

Confusing: yes
Illegal: YES

I have suggested this wording be clarified/corrected before but I don't think WDFW thought it was a problem. I'm glad to have this post to show them how confusing it is!

* Note: there is a disclaimer in the Rules pamphlet that basically says that it is summary of state law and not the law itself. We are still responsible to follow state law no matter what the pamphlet says, even if it is wrong.
 
#56 ·
Woodway, I am sorry but I believe you are wrong. The permit does not allow a fishery for ESA-listed endangered fish, only some amount of incidental take (accidental catching) while fishing for other un-listed species. Look at the title of the permit below…it is a permit for UNLISTED fish only (non-ESA listed, non-endangered fish).
I could very well be wrong. I don't pretend to be a rules expert.

But I have read the rules several times and the freshwater rules are VERY clear that Steelhead are considered to be trout. Nowhere do the rules say anything about being illegal to target listed steelhead. The rules do discuss proper handling and relasing of wild steelhead.

Look at the Methow River rules and tell me where it says you cannot fish for listed steelhead...

From my reading of the rules, I cannot say that the guide was breaking the law. Now I 100% don't agree with targeting a listed fish, but it looks to me like what he was doing was legit. Unfortunately, it appears to have contributed to the river closing early.
 
#50 ·
Freestone, thank you - don't apologize - for aiding our understanding.

I guess my next question is: does this type of guide behavior, and the rumpus it leads to on public forums, result in fewer or more bookings? I would not fish with this guide (and I have fished with him before, twice) but are there anglers who think that exploiting a "loophole" in the regs for a chance to hook a steelhead is OK, like cheating the IRS? Does greater notoriety get him more jobs, and prove the adage that any advertising is good advertising?
 
#51 ·
Josh, the Rules pamphlet would indicate that it is open for steelhead but it can't be open as the steelhead in the river are endangered. Here is my take on all this, although I'm no expert:

The pamphlet is very mis-leading or flat-out wrong depending on your view. (see my previous post) It requires you to know that it is illegal to fish for an endangered species. It is against state and federal law to 'take' an endangered species be it a plant, animal or fish. To 'take' means: '"harass, harm, pursue, hunt, shoot, wound, kill, trap, capture, or collect, or to attempt to engage in any such conduct." The definition 'take' would include targeting (pursue) an endangered fish and 'illegal take' is a serious violation of Federal and State Law (it can be a Felony, not just a ticket). Therefore, there can be no fishing of any kind in a river with endangered fish because of the chance of harming them. However, the Feds can issue a special permit that will allow some 'incidental take' (read insignificant accidental catching or killing) under a very strict set of rules. These are called Section 10 permits* (see below) and for fish, NOAA is in charge of issuing them. These permits are usually issued for various scientific purposes aimed at improving the recovery of the species but may cause harm to a few of them in the process. So many people complained about the original ESA law believing it would shut down all commerce, development, commercial fishing , etc that the law was later ammended to allow other non-scientific activities if one could prove that an activity will not harm or minimally harm the endangered species (like a recreational or commercial fishery for another species). The 'incidental take' allowed is strictly defined on each permit and must be carefully monitored and reported. If the permitted take is exceeded, the activity must be halted or in the case of a fishery, be closed. That is what happened on the Methow this week.

So why do we get to fish the Methow at all given that its steelhead and Chinook are endangered? How do we justify potentially killing more endangered steelhead just so we can enjoy a recreational activity? Well, because there are several permits** that allow specific tightly controlled fisheries to take place on the Upper Columbia and its tribs. There was a long, hard-fought effort to get a permit that included a trout season on the Methow from June 1 - Sept 30. WDFW convinced NOAA that the impact on endangered fish would be minimal and the allowed 'incidental take' of steelhead is very small. (take = catch, whether not it was released) Keep in mind the take of steelhead is supposed to be incidental, not purposeful 'take' (catching or targeting). The 'take' (catching) of all steelhead is regularly monitored by creel surveys and other means to make sure the maximum take is not exceeded; if it were, WDFW would be in violation of the permit (and among other things, we might not be allowed a trout season next year). The total permitted incidental take/catch on the Methow during trout season is:

"1. No more than 20 adult UCR steelhead be caught and released in the Methow River trout fishery, of which 2 fish may die; (Note that it doesn't differentiate between hatchery or wild fish, I assume because we won't know until later in the season if we'll need those hatchery fish for spawning.)

Therefore, when 20 adult UCR steelhead are caught during the 4 month trout season, WDFW is required to close the trout season. 20 steelhead aren't very many over 4 months which is why the WDFW employees were telling people to break them off if they hooked one. Since the permit was for a trout fishery only and permits only incidental take of listed steelhead, anyone intentionally fishing for steelhead (or Chinook) would be in violation of Federal Law whether or not they released it. Let me be clear - even intentional C&R fishing for an endangered species is illegal, period. The permit even requires that: "5. The WDFW shall take measures to prevent the inadvertent illegal take of ESA-listed fish". Again depending on the situation, this can be a Felony, not merely a ticket. Yes, it can be hard to prove someone was targeting them, but it is still illegal not to mention highly unethical!

That is the trout season, so why a steelhead season? Because WDFW made a case that it can be bad for wild fish if too many hatchery fish spawn. They asked NOAA for a permit that allowed them to cull/kill the excess hatchery steelhead. (the permit is for the Upper Columbia River and tributaries including the Methow, Wenatchee, Okanagan, etc) A permit was granted that allows WDFW to cull excess hatchery fish at the dams, fish traps, etc to prevent them from spawning in too large a number. However, under certain conditions, WDFW can choose to allow anglers to kill the hatchery fish instead of doing it themselves. For this to happen, there first has to be excess hatchery fish (in ratio to wild fish) and then the return of wild fish must be high enough to withstand a certain amount of accidental deaths because even C&R will cause some deaths. But please note: this is not a C&R fishery to target endangered wild fish because that is illegal; it is only open so that excess hatchery fish can be culled. WDFW could (and some would argue should) do it at the dams, etc and not have a steelhead season at all but they try to keep us happy. NOAA has threatened to shut down the steelhead season if people C&R hatchery steelhead as the only reason for allowing any fishing in the first place was to kill the hatchery fish. If we have a season this year and if you C&R hatchery steelhead, you will be partly responsible if NOAA shuts it down, the same as those who targeted steelhead during the trout season helped shut down the trout season early.

Truthfully, I don't know how WDFW can get away with allowing us to release hatchery steelhead instead of requiring us to kill the first 2 we catch, 'punch' them and stop fishing that day. Given how many people view these openings as C&R fisheries and view catching an endangered wild steelhead as some kind of prize to be pursued and be proud of, I'm starting to wonder if NOAA was crazy for issuing the permits at all…

*http://www.nwr.noaa.gov/ESA-Salmon-Regulations-Permits/Section-10-Permits/Index.cfm

** Steelhead season: http://www.nwr.noaa.gov/Salmon-Harvest-Hatcheries/Hatcheries/upload/1396Permit_final.pdf

Trout season and General Recreational Fishery: http://www.nwr.noaa.gov/Salmon-Harvest-Hatcheries/Salmon-Fishery-Management/upload/1554_Permit.pdf
 
#53 ·
Before this gets to far...I would like to say a couple of things.... First I am not defending any one, but it should be noted that guides during the Summer C&R trout season on the Methow only make up aproximately 10% of the anglers ie..their clients...So no one guide is responsible for the closer. There were alot of regular anglers targeting steelhead. Also I have seen writen on here some comment that alot of guides were seen on the river, not true. There are alot of private anglers that have their own 3 man rafts and or pontoon boats. Just cause you see a raft does not mean they are a guide. I have seen no more then 4 diff guides on the river at one time and that is the exception to the norm. Only seen that a couple of times.
Those that know me know that I have been warning about targeting steelhead this time a year and what might happen...Not going to get into whether it is in the regs or not I have explained it a number of times....I have been saying this for a few years now.
It breaks my heart to see the river closed...But bottom line is the protection of the listed fish takes #1 priority. I don't think anyone can say other wise...It should be noted that this time it was steelhead next time it could be Bulltrout that are over impacted.
Simply...we as anglers are suppose to be responsible stewards of the water, whether the rules say we can or can not do this or that....
 
#55 ·
Kerri,

Come on now. We all know what he was talking about. He was quite clear. I am quite sure that a guide advertising a potential loophole in the reg.'s helped cement any emergency closure. All I know is that it didn't help Josh Root, and that pisses me off!

Hopefully it'll reopen for hatchery retention. That way I can use all my political capital to lobby the ole lady for a fall steelhead trip. Then I'll drive over and spend a few days getting skunked like last time. Oh the glory of steelhead.

I hate Tampa,
cds
 
#58 ·
The point and moral of this story is that people were out there w/ 8 weight two handed rods, targeting steelhead. They were openly talking about what they were doing and didn't seem to care. Too bad fish and game wasn't handing out tickets to anyone with a 7 weight rod or bigger. Also, if I understood this correctly, there is a 20 fish overhead, so if trout (cuts and bows) fishermen happen to catch up to 20 steelhead in the river, fish and game will shut it down. Bottom line is that uninformed yahoos are screwing around with an endangered species. It saddens me that this little jem has been "blown up"
 
#60 ·
Let's say you are fishing a nice trout run on the Methow on Sept 15. Below you, towards the tail out, a long down and away cast, but doable, you see a nice fish porpoise. The setting sun glints off of chrome, and a brief blush of was that red?, and you know, I mean, YOU KNOW, that was no spawning salmon. That was either a patented enormous Methow cutbow..or that was a steelhead.

From what I've read..I guess ya'll are just gonna reel on up and leave the river.
 
#68 ·
No, I wouldn't leave the river. I would and did move on. I did however pass 3-4 people bragging about catching several steelhead. Nice one d*ckhead!

Based on my own knowledge and the definition of the rules presented in this post it seems that FISHERMANs' actions have a direct impact on the seasonal regs. Sounds fare.

Don't f*ck it up guys!

Let's say you are fishing a nice trout run on the Methow on Sept 15. Below you, towards the tail out, a long down and away cast, but doable, you see a nice fish porpoise. The setting sun glints off of chrome, and a brief blush of was that red?, and you know, I mean, YOU KNOW, that was no spawning salmon. That was either a patented enormous Methow cutbow..or that was a steelhead.

From what I've read..I guess ya'll are just gonna reel on up and leave the river.
 
#61 ·
Tricky situation SCHLAB, but if you have a 4, 5, or 6 wt. rod like any guy would who is fishing for cutbows, chances are the fish would break u off right away, or you would know there is no way you could handle that fish w/ the light trout gear you should be using. It's tough, I know. I can't lie, I would cast at the fish for sure. Dumb human instinct.
 
#62 ·
WTF? There's nothing tricky about it. It is either right or wrong, not kind of. Anyone who would abuse this loop hole is an idiot and not a real steelheader, or fisherman for that matter. Many of us over here know we could pick up aggressive fish, skating in late summer on one of the most beautiful steelhead rivers in existence. Why don't we? It’s wrong…... that’s it.

Shlab, what would I do? I wouldn't fish the Methow this time of year because it's closed to steelheading and the likelihood of me catching a steelhead is good. Nice mentality.:rolleyes:

As far as Dickson goes: If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.

I think everyone missed "Methow's" post on the second page. Reread it, it's the best post on here.
 
#63 ·
There are miles and miles of productive Columbia river tribs with some fraction of 332k steelhead headed into them. The Methow is cute, and the towns are nice, but there are other places I'd rather be.

What irritates me about this whole process is that there are hatchery fish in the system that could be getting whacked now, but when a good portion of the hatchery fish are gone, and the portion of wild fish much higher, the river will likely remain open to fishing. As far as I'm concerned, east-side fisheries with wild populations in need of protection should close Dec. 31st and re-open June 1st.

For those that don't know, Methow hatchery fish with just 1 wild parent are not fin-clipped, meaning that they are considered wild if they successfully return. In light of that, there doesn't seem to be any real reason to ensure the complete removal of clipped fish.
 
#64 ·
Trevor the length of any steelhead season on the Methow and other waters of the Upper Columbia is based on the the set number of true wild steelhead that are impacted by hook and release. True not all Ad. Pres. fin fish are wild but the season opens and closes based on the true wilds.....this number is determind before the season by way of hands on sampling of fish ie... DNA testing etc. The hatchery wild fish are not considered wild for this purpose.
Also for FYI not enough hatchery marked fish are being kept by anglers during the past steelhead seasons and as such this could have a impact on future seasons....look for some possible new rules if we do have season this year.
 
#66 ·
did a search on this guide, wow! Where is the responce from his employee we usually see? I read about stolen pictures, stolen fly pattern, stolen deposit, and now this. Like someone else said, "Where there's smoke, there's fire." No pussy footing around it.... this guy sounds like a class A DIRTBAG. Everyone comes down so hard on any newbie who misunderstands the regs and we have people defending this so called guide?:beathead: Screw him! A guide is the one person who should know and follow the rules, his license should be terminated immediatly or such an uproar should begin to force him out of biz. And don't talk about incidental catch, most of the poachers claim to be fishing for a legal fish while accually targeting an illegal fish. All you needed to do is drive past the stilly last week to see all the people fishing for silvers, claiming to be fishing for SH. Sorry about the rant but I am sick and tired of criminals, yes criminals getting away with this shit.
 
#67 ·
I don't think a single person defended the guide, they just tried to derail the logic of those that put so much blaim on him.

Read Methow's post carefully. Therein lies the perspective of someone who lives there and understands the situation fully.

The fact is, if Dickson weren't there, this still would have happened, I would bet money on that.

You all need to stop pointing fingers and blaiming the one high profile guide we have around here. If you don't like him, talk some dirt, but don't blaim him for the Methow closing, that is just jumping to conclusions and is not very well though out.

I was there 2 weeks ago and it was a ZOOOOOOOOOOOOOO and that was well before the infamous posting.

I will qoute Methow's post here to make things easier for those to read it:

Before this gets to far...I would like to say a couple of things.... First I am not defending any one, but it should be noted that guides during the Summer C&R trout season on the Methow only make up aproximately 10% of the anglers ie..their clients...So no one guide is responsible for the closer. There were alot of regular anglers targeting steelhead. Also I have seen writen on here some comment that alot of guides were seen on the river, not true. There are alot of private anglers that have their own 3 man rafts and or pontoon boats. Just cause you see a raft does not mean they are a guide. I have seen no more then 4 diff guides on the river at one time and that is the exception to the norm. Only seen that a couple of times.
Those that know me know that I have been warning about targeting steelhead this time a year and what might happen...Not going to get into whether it is in the regs or not I have explained it a number of times....I have been saying this for a few years now.
It breaks my heart to see the river closed...But bottom line is the protection of the listed fish takes #1 priority. I don't think anyone can say other wise...It should be noted that this time it was steelhead next time it could be Bulltrout that are over impacted.
Simply...we as anglers are suppose to be responsible stewards of the water, whether the rules say we can or can not do this or that....
 
#71 ·
Nothing really except that each time I have met him he has been informative and friendly.

Hell, almost everybody around here reads his weekly fishing reports which helped me back in my beginings. He has been doing those for how long now? Has to be a decade or more.

I just get tired of people pointing a finger with stuff like this, gives him too much credit for one thing, and just doesn't add up for another.

Seems like he is the PNW fly fishing community's punching bag.

It just shows how irrational most people are.
 
G
#72 ·
Jason, can you clarify one thing for me? I don't know the guy or really much of the Wa. scene as you know...But reading this thread I wouldn't have made the connection if you hadn't named him...Then you kind of keep doing this back track on saying we shouldn't hold him accountable...It's kind of like you want your cake and eat it too...You can't bust a guys balls on here and then say your standing up for him can you?

It sucks about the river closing but in my jaded getting older age I have to stop and wonder why/how we can all be so pissed off at anglers for causing this closing and say nothing about let's see....The mouth of the Nooksack being raped by the indians EVERY night with their nets and our futile efforts and tax dollars going to hatchery programs with little to no chance of success because of this...etc. etc.

It's like we're really all pissed off about something/someone else but instead vent on the convenient and safe fallback of it's all our own flyguys doing..or guides for that matter...I don't know maybe this doesn't make sense to allot of you or maybe i'm barking up the wrong tree but I find it sad somehow that the few places we as flyfisherman can really enjoy closes and we only blame each other...I have never fished that river, only driven by it and wondered...I know guys who were going over this weekend for TROUT...and had looked forward to hearing their report...I know the 4th corner guys rave about it and have seen some pic's but I often scratch my head at what some consider big fish on 4/5 wt rods and I think, Shit that's why I bought a 000, 5 wt rods are for 6+lb and up trout not dinkers...and yet because it's like...everyone is just so happy to have somewhere..anywhere to fish that have even these little guys in them they make it a mecca!!!
Maybe one possible solution is a gear restriction instead of closure...Why not make it fly only, no external weights or floats (indicators), floating line and 2wt rod max./ 3 lb leader max allowed??? Seems it would solve and save your fishery and be allot easier on all involved then the extreme of closing the river???
Yeah I know all the obvious arguments but has this been discussed???
 
#74 ·
Jason, can you clarify one thing for me? I don't know the guy or really much of the Wa. scene as you know...But reading this thread I wouldn't have made the connection if you hadn't named him...Then you kind of keep doing this back track on saying we shouldn't hold him accountable...It's kind of like you want your cake and eat it too...You can't bust a guys balls on here and then say your standing up for him can you?
Others were making the connection already and I knew from previous experience where all this was going as far as Dickson bashing.

My stance isn't about defending him, just pointing out how stupid it is to blaim him so much for this as if he is the main reason the Methow is closing.

It sucks about the river closing but in my jaded getting older age I have to stop and wonder why/how we can all be so pissed off at anglers for causing this closing and say nothing about let's see....The mouth of the Nooksack being raped by the indians EVERY night with their nets and our futile efforts and tax dollars going to hatchery programs with little to no chance of success because of this...etc. etc.
Yes it blows. And it blows hard.

It's like we're really all pissed off about something/someone else but instead vent on the convenient and safe fallback of it's all our own flyguys doing..or guides for that matter...
Exactly my point! These words couldn't be more apt.

Lets try and direct our energy at the real issues like letting water over dams in the Methow's case.
 
G
#75 ·
If I was a guide I'd be the first one to call this guy out. Stuff like this is just as bad as some jerk acting like he owns the river because he's a guide and pays the fees and insurance. It's not his f'cking river!!! The sad part is it just gives more and more of the REAL pros a bad name.

You can't read this guys post and not get the idea that he is being less than forthright. If a guide suggested to me that I could take advantage of a loophole in the reg's THAT WOULD BE THE END OF THE TRIP,PERIOD. And he could kiss his tip goodbye, and hope I didn't report him.

He has an ABSOLUTE RESPONSIBILITY to do it right, just like all professionals. His clients need to take some heat as well, it's their fishing license therefore it is their responsibility to know the reg's!

It makes me mad as hell for the guides I know that do it right, they teach courtesy, ethics, and good sportsmanship as well as how to get a fish to hand and guys like this just don't deserve to be included in their ranks.

I have tipped generously on more than one guided trip when we got got skunked, because if your guide is a pro you never go away empty handed.:mad:
 
#85 ·
If I was a guide I'd be the first one to call this guy out. Stuff like this is just as bad as some jerk acting like he owns the river because he's a guide and pays the fees and insurance. It's not his f'cking river!!! The sad part is it just gives more and more of the REAL pros a bad name.

You can't read this guys post and not get the idea that he is being less than forthright. If a guide suggested to me that I could take advantage of a loophole in the reg's THAT WOULD BE THE END OF THE TRIP,PERIOD. And he could kiss his tip goodbye, and hope I didn't report him.

He has an ABSOLUTE RESPONSIBILITY to do it right, just like all professionals. His clients need to take some heat as well, it's their fishing license therefore it is their responsibility to know the reg's!

It makes me mad as hell for the guides I know that do it right, they teach courtesy, ethics, and good sportsmanship as well as how to get a fish to hand and guys like this just don't deserve to be included in their ranks.

I have tipped generously on more than one guided trip when we got got skunked, because if your guide is a pro you never go away empty handed.:mad:
well put, especially the last line!
 
#76 ·
I got so many comments I could write a book. But I'll keep most of that to myself.

But a thanks goes to Freestone for your #51 post. Great summary.

Methow, your thoughts, insight and opinions are always welcomed.

WT, I have never seen too much anti stuff about Mitchell or Joyce. Maybe I've missed it? Seen plenty on Dickson though.

Golfman, you presented some interesting options in gear restrictions. However, it has been my opinion that steelhead may be more prone to hitting dries that those "tanker" cutthroat that seem to lie on the bottom and eat eggs and streamers this time of year. Besides, you might be putting at risk all your larger trout by placing restrictions on the line/rod/tippet size and the inability to land them quickly in warmer water.

Overall, lots of interesting discussion regardless of your opinions.
 
#79 ·
One more point then I say no more... There are rivers in this state where you can legaly harvest wild steelhead. Ok the law says you can...but from what I have read from everyones comments on this issue don't think anyone here would take one.... But again the law says I can legaly do so....Ethicaly I would not...so just cause the laws says you can, does that it make it right?...if so I would expect those that were targeting steelhead here will be harvesting their one wild steelhead from one of the open rivers where it is legaly aloud...Just cause it says you can does not make it right when there are other factors involved...
 
#80 ·
One more point then I say no more... There are rivers in this state where you can legaly harvest wild steelhead. Ok the law says you can...but from what I have read from everyones comments on this issue don't think anyone here would take one.... But again the law says I can legaly do so....Ethicaly I would not...so just cause the laws says you can does it make it right...if so I would expect those that were targeting steelhead here will be harvesting their one wild steelhead from one of the open rivers where it is legaly aloud...Just cause it says you can does not make it right when there are other factors involved...
iagreeiagreeiagreeiagreeiagreeiagree
Amen to that brother!
 
#86 ·
For whoever is expecting me to be in here sticking up for Dennis..

I am busy in NorCal fishing for steelhead for another outfitter. Since I didn't bring my laptop I get internet access only every few days. I have been out of the state, and contact with Dennis for well over a month. I didn't even talk to him in the month before I left Washington.

That means you guys know as much as I do.

You may be interested to know that the only email pictures I have gotten of Dennis' trips is of a 9-10lb Cutthroat, which Mike emailed to me.

I am not going to get involved in this as I am out of the loop and cant comment either way with anything other than wild accusations or hypothesis' made out of supposition. Why don't some of you guys who are feeding on the mob mentality borrow a set of balls and then give the guy a call instead of venting into cyberspace? His number is listed on his website at the bottom of the main page.

As far as the one comment I read about guides should be calling out other guides etc.. I am not going to be known for building my business by destroying other folks' businesses. That isn't my way, and it would never happen publicly, if I felt some sort of correction needed to happen to someone elses business.
 
#88 ·
I am not going to get involved in this
You became involved once you posted.

Why don't some of you guys who are feeding on the mob mentality borrow a set of balls and then give the guy a call instead of venting into cyberspace? His number is listed on his website at the bottom of the main page.
What would telling the old man that he's acting like a dickhead accomplish? You can't tell me that an educated and respectful conversation would be the outcome. He threw himself under the bus by posting what he did on his site.
 
#87 ·
Personally, I hope the crest of trash-talking has past. Everything that actually needed saying, good and bad, as regards Dickson and other anglers has been said. While it's encouraging to see anglers police their own, it ought to be done with a sense of proportionality and an eye towards resolution. I have little doubt that Dickson, amongst others, will give this closure the necessary consideration.
 
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