Methow

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by eJohn, Sep 12, 2005.

  1. CaddisMadness

    CaddisMadness Fly Fishing in Patagonia: A Trout Bum's Guide

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    I fished hard all Saturday and Sunday without any luck. Saw plenty of other anglers but only heard of one fish caught. It sure tapered off quick with all the pressure since opening.
     
  2. jabseattle

    jabseattle jabs

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    The crowds are not worth it..Like others have said every F#$%^ hole or run had someone in it....We fished hard all weekend 3 to hand between the 3 of us..I could not land my F#$%er.

    B got low holed by 7 guys at once..constant lowholing Whores out there...There are closer and better rivers that currently have Steel in it...
     
  3. o mykiss

    o mykiss Active Member

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    I was there recently. Sadly, this river is getting loved to death this year and there are some commercial interests who will go unnamed who seem to be intent pimping the hell out of it. Because of that, my guess is that it is only a matter of time before it will go into lockdown mode for some number of years once again, since management objectives of culling hatchery fish can be achieved in other ways. For Westsiders, I agree that we are probably better off mostly sticking to the wet side of the Cascades, because the Methow is a long way to drive to find so much competition for such limited water. Unfortunately, people in North Central Washington don't have much in the way of other options for chasing steelhead.

    One thing related to incidental mortality that really had me scratching my head: I saw tons of gear guys (and, unbelievably, a few fly fisherman) who were fishing without waders - i.e., standing on the bank in tennis shoes and jeans, or the like - and didn't have landing nets. I wonder if anyone fishing that way could safely land a wild fish? If the margin of error is 16 wild fish, as another poster indicated, we may hit it sooner rather than later with as many people out there fishing from the bank and unable/unwilling to get in the water or carry a landing net so they have a reasonable chance at safely landing a fish. Dragging a fish on the bank or rocks is a sure fire way to increase incidental mortality (not to mention the fact that it's illegal as far as wild fish are concerned). It also doesn't help when flyfishers are fishing lighter weight rods. On a river like this, it's kind of important to get the fish in as fast as possible.
     
  4. waterside

    waterside New Member

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    Just to set the record straight...We did film on the Methow the other day (10/17/05) for a new show that is coming out called "Seasons of the Fly" but I did not receive any monies for it. When it airs, I will receive some press from it. As far as pimping rivers...everybody has an opinion and opinions are just that. The pressure I have personally applied to the Methow is but a fraction to the entire pressure it receives. However, I hope I have helped make some memories for anglers wishing to learn more about fishing the fly. Recently (10/19/2005) an angler (Jim Brandt) and I worked a short boulder strewn tail out with a greased line and a skating fly. He had never fished that way. All of his previous steelhead fishing was with a nymph under an indicator/bobber. When we finished fishing that tail out he had experienced an entirely different way of fishing for steelhead, with success. I am not quite sure how much impact that personally had on you, the fishing public, and the entire Methow river system; I suspect not much. One angler and one coach versus 50-100 other anglers on the river? I will say, I certainly hope it had a positive impact on the guest I was with.

    waterside
    jack

    guiding the Methow since 2002
     
  5. yakcanyon

    yakcanyon Banned or Parked

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    jack-
    how come your website is covered in recent photos of wild steelhead being held out of the water which, as you know, is illegal?
     
  6. smc

    smc Active Member

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    Waterside, I suspect the issue is not that you were spending a day fishing and filming: The issue is what you might do with the footage.

    You say that you "will receive some press". Along with the Methow. This means that you, personally, will be responsible for a very disproportionate amount of fishing pressure that the Methow receives in the future.

    Just my opinion. :hmmm:
     
  7. Big Tuna

    Big Tuna Member

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    Jack,
    Thanks for the clarification on your filming. As I mentioned in my post, it was a rumor, so I presented it as such. My "pimping" comment was not directed specifically at you, but at the practice of "selling" rivers or other bodies of water for personal profit. Maybe the shoe doesn't fit w/ your Methow footage. I personally have no objection to guiding. Though I've never used one personally, I've heard many great stories...including one's about you. I also recognize that a lot of guides are some of the best advocates for conserving fisheries and water resources. Consequently, I think it's great that you made your client's day by showing him how to skate AND actually catch fish. However, I take issue with folks who do media spreads or circulate film footage that will reach a much larger audience and potentially bring significantly more pressure on an already pressured fishery. I notice on your site that you don't always divulge destinations. I assume it's because you don't want to bring undue pressure on lesser known fisheries. The same concept applies here. There are many opinions on this subject on this site alone, that just happens to be mine. Sorry if I offended you.
     
  8. sjterry

    sjterry Sr. Lurker

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    I just went through the web site, simply because I thought this statement went against the grain of what I have heard about Jack's operation. The only photo that I saw labeled so that you know it was a SH and had an adipose fin, was in the water. Are there some shots that could be questioned, yes - likely so depending on facts we don't know. But, I didn't see any fish that appeared to be handled in an inappropriate manner. As for being illegal, it depends on whether it is legal to retain the fish, so it depends on where the fish photo was taken, the species, time of year, the year it was taken, etc. I'm not looking to start a fight or defend every picture on Jack's or anyone else’s site, but generic statements that slight another are not really appropriate (imho and yes you have a right to your opinion). Given the number of posts you have, you clearly are not calling out every bad photo on this site, so why pick on Jack, he was simply nice enough to clarify what was going on.
     
  9. ncitrez

    ncitrez Too many hobbies.....

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    As the proverb goes, "he who is without sin may cast the first stone".

    Let's not hijack this thread into a witch hunt. I've fished with Jack, and he runs a first-class operation. It's not his fault the Methow is getting fished hard, and he is not "personally responsible" for anything other than running a business and doing his job - putting his client on to fish.

    As for the pics of wild fish out of the water, browse through the gallery of THIS SITE for awhile. There's lots of pics like that posted by our members. Like stated above, only fish that must be released cannot be totally removed from the water.

    I doubt there are any "fly fishing saints" among us.
     
  10. o mykiss

    o mykiss Active Member

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    Maybe not yet, but when you go out of your way to capture a sensitive fishery on film and then allow it to be distributed to the masses, what do you think the effect of that is going to be? Are fewer people going to come? Or are you going to have a bunch of yahoos from every corner of the world show up next year with their 5 wt. trout rods to do battle with ESA-listed fish for 30 minutes at a time? You have to realize that putting something like that out for mass consumption is going to have consequences. An effort like that has nothing to do with putting one's own clients onto fish. Ironically, if I blabbed about about certain places on this site (can you say Rattlesnake Creek, or a couple years ago, the upper Columbia trout fishery?), Evening Hatch would consider it extremely poor form because they are special and/or fragile places and EH would not want them ruined for their paying customers. If the shoe fits . . . . :eek:
     
  11. jackchinook

    jackchinook Member

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    Did you guide for 'whitefish' too?
     
  12. ncitrez

    ncitrez Too many hobbies.....

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    OK, I guess we should outlaw all fishing magazines, guide services, and TV shows. All bodies of water are now given "zipperlip" status. Further, if you don't live in the State, you can't fish it. Finally, all equipment must be certified as adequate to pursue your intended quarry(in order to keep the "fight" as short as possible), and all cameras are illegal - NO HERO SHOTS.

    Sounds a little extreme, doesn't it?? A little "over the top", maybe?? Sorry if I laid the sarcasm on a little thick, just trying to make a point.

    Of course fishing pressure will probably increase if the Methow is advertised in the supposed upcoming show. Do we know that names and places will be given in this upcoming show? Even if specific locations are divulged, we're talking about a "year-by-year" fishery here. Only when sufficient fish make it over the dams and the OK's are given is this river open for fishing. I doubt NMFS and the WDFW will allow the endangered fish to be further harmed by an increase in catch-and-release fishing. They'll just shut the thing down.

    Now, if I was in Jack's shoes, why would I do anything to possibly close a river that I have clients paying money to fish? That doesn't make any sense.
    I would definitely like the publicity, however, with a hope for increased business. I don't think anyone here would turn down a chance to be televised if we owned our own guiding service. Let's be real here.

    I don't know how certain guides and businesspeople suddenly became enemies of the fish on the internet BBs. Guys like Jack and Dickson seem to get a really bad rap, and I don't think it's fair. Heck, 99% of the time someone asks about fishing a certain river for the first time, people always recommend hiring a guide.

    I guess guides are OK for teaching, but once they start earning a living they are only in it for the money and become part of the problem. :rolleyes:
     
  13. smc

    smc Active Member

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    Absolutely agree ncitrez. Guys like Jack and Dennis have every right to make a living, doing what they love. I just thought it was a tad disingenuous for Jack to dance around the fact that his marketing may have an impact on a fragile fishery.

    But guys like Jack are not the problem... They are trying to survive right along with the fish. More power to 'em. If the fishery was not so compromised by other issues, this would be really exciting for Jack and the local economy. I hope it turns out that way.
     
  14. Roper

    Roper Idiot Savant

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    Actually, it's not a proverb, it was Jesus speaking to the Pharisees as written in John 8...

    But you are right on, my friend.

    St. Roper...;)
     
  15. Roper

    Roper Idiot Savant

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    No, but LB does...(Papafsh):rofl: