mike kinney and bob meiser join tfo

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by shawn k, Feb 8, 2007.

  1. James Mello

    James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

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    To each his own, but in rebuttle, I'd say, I won't support local industries if the pricing/quality ratio doesn't justify buying from them. It's kinda like the late 70's early 80's auto industry. They were more expensive, lower quality, but damn, if you didn't buy American, you were unpatriotic. To whit, I'm not a huge fan of the pricing of Loomis 2 handers. With all of that said, if the price difference is a few bucks I won't sweat it. But if the price difference is larger, I say let the American spirit of innovation take place, and either push the cutting edge (Sage), or figure out how to do it cheaper....

    Also, as a side note, Shimano owns Loomis, so if you are truly interested in American industries, you're pretty much left with Sage and St Croix.

    -- Cheers
    -- James
     
  2. alpinetrout

    alpinetrout Banned or Parked

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    I'm a big fan of supporting the quality local brands, but refusing to buy any imported fishing equipment simply to "keep American jobs" is the most minimal, insignificant contribution to the American economy you can possibly make. Look at the "Made in..." tags on your clothing, shoes, cars, electronics, dishes, furniture, etc. How much did you spend on those items versus a couple hundred bucks for a fly rod and how many of them have equivalent products that are made in the USA?
     
  3. Big K1

    Big K1 Large Member

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    Burkheimer.
     
  4. alpinetrout

    alpinetrout Banned or Parked

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    You know, I tried to get Burkheimer to build a couple of blanks for me a few years ago, but after being told they were a few days away from being finished for several months straight, I finally gave up and had CTS build them instead. I never did hear if he finished them or not, but my guess is he never even started.
     
  5. James Mello

    James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

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    Burkie == slow... He tries to keep production to around 500 a year. If you're not on the list, then the velvet ropes will keep you out. It's not to say he's a bad guy, to the contrary he's done a lot for the 2 handed guys out there. But in general his production can be considered Boutique rather than consumer, which is probably how he and his customers prefer it.

    -- Cheers
    -- James
     
  6. luckybalbowa

    luckybalbowa Member

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    Exactly who I bought from last. :) Quality in a local business. Price was up there for the blank, but not too much more than any other of similar quality.

    For me in the last couple of years I have visited gloomis' and burkheimer's manufacturing shops and have met the people who have built those rods. It kind of hit home for me that choosing to purchase from those companies helped keep those people in a job.

    I think also that there's a little local pride in the fact that within about 20 mins of my neighborhood growing up there are three pretty good rod manufacturers (loomis, lamiglas, burkheimer). Maybe its that local connection that also drives my purchasing decisions?
     
  7. luckybalbowa

    luckybalbowa Member

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    Getting a rod from Burkheimer might take you a little time, but I had no problem when I ordered from him this last fall. Got my blank (and a few other components) within about 3-4 weeks. But, I guess it is hard to satisfy our fast food type of society. :)
     
  8. James Mello

    James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

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    While it is the exception, I've heard of folks waiting *months* to get a Burkie blank. I myself waited 3 of them while a supplier I buy from assured me that a production order he made was going to get filled by Burkheimer. He ended up waiting a total of 4 months for the blanks he ordered, but by then I cancelled. They still sold like hot cakes due to the wonderful quality, but still....

    The problem I have isn't pressures for myself, but rathers pressures from the people I build rods for. I'm slow enough as it is, so I don't need additional delays in time due to late delivery of parts...

    With all of that said, with a lot of time and a big budget, I wouldn't mind getting a Burkie to build on. It's just one of those things where the time to wait isn't something I can afford.
     
  9. alpinetrout

    alpinetrout Banned or Parked

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    I would have been fine waiting for the blank if I would have been given an accurate estimate to begin with. Being promised 4-6 weeks, then checking in 12 weeks later and being told they would be finished the following week, then checking in again 3 weeks later and not getting any reply whatsoever isn't acceptable to me. There are enough other good rodmakers out there that I don't need to deal with people like that.
     
  10. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

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    Your last sentence covers it all. Carry now 'retails' his rods through several large shops (flyfishusa, Kaufmann are two that come immediately to mind). His is not a huge operation in terms of staff, facilities, etc., but he makes an excellent rod from top to bottom of the range. To my knowledge, he builds all his own blanks in house.

    Want to pay a bit more for pure 'eye candy?' Take a look at his new 'Vintage' series finish rods!:thumb: WOOF!!
     
  11. Big K1

    Big K1 Large Member

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    All it takes to get on "The List" is a credit card.:D
     
  12. FT

    FT Active Member

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    T&T, and Orvis make their blanks in house here in the US too. And I think Dan Craft is also among those who have their blanks made in the US.

    Meiser uses CTS to make his blanks for him because they are one of the best and most innovative composite tubing manufacturers and composite engineering firms in the world. In short, CTS has the expertise to do what Bob is looking for in high performance, multi-modulus graphite blank construction and is willing to make small numbers of a given blank (including variations of each one) for him to his design specifications. He is just as much a boutique builder as Kerry.

    Back to the discussion this started out as. TFO, ECHO and other lower priced Asian companies provide a decent product at a low price to those looking for bargains. That is why they are successful. It is not because they have superior product or innovative designs and materials. It is simply because they offer a decent casting product at a low price, nothing more. However, the more of this type of product we buy, the fewer rod building jobs are left in the US, which means only the very expensive, high end and boutique builders will be left to do any innovation in rod design or materials. Don't know how many of you know this; but just 30 years ago there were a lot more rod manufactuers in the US and they employed a fair number of people making everything from fly rods to spinning rods to casting rods to offshore rods. There aren't many of them left today. And it is due to cheap labor being used to build rods offshore in Asia.
     
  13. Will Atlas

    Will Atlas Guest

    I'm not saying its a good thing that manufacturing is moving abroad, but its sort of a fact of life. We're all consumers and we want to buy cheap goods (think about the last thing you bought other than a flyrod), and the fact is we're living in a global economy.

    I dont think anyone thinks they're going to get a meiser with a different label for 325 dollars, but what TFO will be offering is a relatively well designed rod for an affordable price. There is a place for that in the market, and I dont think its any knock on Meiser or any other boutique/upscale rod maker. So why the heated posts?

    Will
     
  14. billyspey

    billyspey New Member

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    what i don't understand ?? are these cheap goods or affordable price. i don't buy cheap goods. i have to little time to enjoy my sport so i won't be spending it with cheap goods, i would rather have a good used goods.you can find those with affordable prices. when you buy cheap it never gets any better it will always be cheap.
     
  15. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

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    And you'll alway know you didn't buy what you wanted ...:rofl: That said, 'cheap is not always bad,' gather Wal-Mart is China's 7th LARGEST international trading partner.