Mt Rainier Tragedy Opens Nonsense Debate

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Desolate, Jan 3, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2005
    Messages:
    4,272
    Likes Received:
    3,705
    Location:
    Beautiful View, WA
    Gun owners like to talk in sober terms about the high responsibility of gun ownership, and yet in this country we allow any lunatic to purchase a gun. This is a contradiction that is hard to rationalize. Ideally, we'd be able to make gun ownership less of an unfettered right and more of a priviledge for those who actually demonstrate a level of responsibility appropriate to gun ownership. The ideal would be to somehow snap our fingers and take guns away from bad guys and leave them in the hands of good guys. The problem of course is that over the past century we've accumulated such a huge number of guns in circulation, and so many of them are now in the hands of lunatics, that there is no longer a way to suddenly prevent loonies from acquiring and using them to do bad things. So gun control at this point (including this narrow idea to outlaw them in NPs) are unrealistic. Thus we are left with Dick's advice to each arm ourselves in defense of the armed loonies, or stay unarmed and hope for the best.
     
  2. triploidjunkie

    triploidjunkie Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    4,325
    Likes Received:
    4,866
    Location:
    Grand Coulee, WA
    When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Not a good situation by anymeans
     
  3. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2005
    Messages:
    4,272
    Likes Received:
    3,705
    Location:
    Beautiful View, WA
    You memorized the NRA message, congrats!

    No one here is talking about completely outlawing guns because it is true that too many are already in circulation, and many of those are in the hands of bad people. But it might make sense to make it a tad more difficult for ne'er-do-wells to get new ones.
     
  4. Flyborg

    Flyborg Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    2,468
    Likes Received:
    815
    Location:
    Kalama, WA
    This shouldn't even be a gun debate. How about better mental and health care for our returning vets?
     
  5. Brian White

    Brian White Recovering Bugmeister

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2009
    Messages:
    632
    Likes Received:
    289
    Location:
    Further from MT than I'd like (B-vue, WA)
    Moderators.....for the love of all that is holy please stop this entire thread! Let's make 2012 about fly-fishing and civility. Or at least fly-fishing and discussing which whiskey tastes best in a tin cup. Alternatively, would you consider creating a special subsection for "threads about politics, wolves and gun control" and then let the people who want to rant and denigrate each other go there? I think I even saw a post on this thread where someone criticized public sector employees. The only post on this whole thread (mine included) with any merit was the crab fly fishing one. It made me want to try to target crabs with a fly, despite a misspent youth where I spent a lot of time hoping I DIDN'T catch crabs...

    Happy New Year! Hoping my wife doesn't ever visit this forum! bw
     
  6. lylelovett666

    lylelovett666 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2008
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    112
    Location:
    seattle,wa
    Lugan,Maybe we should make it so only people with a certain income or lineage or political clout should be able to purchase guns.If you want to make gun ownership some sort of privilege rather than a right I think you lack a basic understanding of why our founders knew this right is so vitally important.
     
  7. East Fork

    East Fork Active Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2004
    Messages:
    1,203
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA

    :thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:
     
  8. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2005
    Messages:
    4,272
    Likes Received:
    3,705
    Location:
    Beautiful View, WA
    That is not what I was suggesting at all. Why did you feel the need to take my reasonable suggestion and extend to into the realm of the unreasonable?

    As far as the intent of our founding fathers, they lived in an America that was vastly different than the one we live in today. Sticking rigidly to dictums from 2+ centuries ago seems unwise. It seems like it should be OK to think critically about issues like this through the lens of today's reality.
     
  9. ribka

    ribka Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,886
    Likes Received:
    711
    Location:
    E WA
    X2 . Of course. Suicide rates are very high for returning combat Vets.
     
  10. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    2,178
    Likes Received:
    1,473
    Location:
    The Salt
  11. ribka

    ribka Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,886
    Likes Received:
    711
    Location:
    E WA
    Try living and working in the inner cities of Detroit, DC, PHilly, Baltimore or even Yakima few years and let us know how critical thinking will help you when being robbed and beaten at gun point. I am here today because I am a firearm owner.
     
  12. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2004
    Messages:
    9,798
    Likes Received:
    5,305
    Location:
    Your City ,State
    Seems like gun law is not the issue here. The issue centers around the second link in the original thread post where the Puyallup redneck calls the retired NPS guy a scum sucking liar. There's plenty of room for debate, altho I haven't read any posts opposed to 2nd Amendment firearm ownership. The over-riding issue is the lack of civility from the Puyallup redneck and a few posters in this thread.

    The important topic, introduced by Ira, regarding fly choice for Ascension Bay is solved with a weighted crab imitation in pinkish-orange coloration, between the size of a dime and a nickel, three pairs of white rubber legs, and a pair of grizzly dyed yellow hackles as claws/arms. Leave the rubber legs a little long; the guides like to trim them to their liking.

    Sg
     
  13. Irafly

    Irafly Indi "Ira" Jones

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2003
    Messages:
    6,389
    Likes Received:
    4,664
    Location:
    Everett, Washington, USA.
    We have a small way of getting around this on the forum with the NFR and SFR (Non Fishing Related and Somewhat Fishing Related) titles before posts. You are somewhat new so I can understand why you may not have known to do that before you posted. As this is a Fly Fishing Sight my attempt to hijack simply was trying to bring us back to the overall purpose of this forum. Granted as Mumbles stated, I'm not always the best at this myself.

    Now back to catching crabs on a fly... Hmmmm I'll have to try to tie a dead fish fly, might work, or maybe something to just tick them off and get caught in their claws, maybe something like they use for Alligator gar. I'll work on it. Bug, I do have some flies that look like little crabs that I'll throw at permit while I'm there.

    Ira..

     
  14. Chris Johnson

    Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    2,977
    Likes Received:
    1,119
    Location:
    Bellingham Wa.
    Well stated G, on both counts, thank you.
     
  15. generic

    generic Justified

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2010
    Messages:
    4,800
    Likes Received:
    1,651
    I was afraid my advice got lost in the heat of debate. Sg seems to have some good advice on the details of the pattern. From what I "hear", it is absolutely amazing when they take the crab. They come into the shallows (sometimes having to "tilt" to one side) pick up the crab, and ziiiiip! Out to open water they go.

    Sg, I was almost going to make the same statement as you did. I'm glad it was you though. I'm not as good at "typing" what I'm trying to say sometimes, and it comes off kinda harsh. Other times I'm just an ass. Well stated though. :thumb:
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.