My next boat?

Discussion in 'Watercraft' started by Rob Ast, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. Jerry Daschofsky

    Jerry Daschofsky Moderator Staff Member

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    How do you like that boat? I was looking at them a few times at the Sportsman Show in Portland. (my chuckbox is made by Koffler in fact). Our booth (I was working the Camp Chef cooking demos) was just across from Kofflers. They seem pretty nice. Haven't seen any in action (the Kofflers anyways).
     
  2. troutpocket

    troutpocket Active Member

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    Those Kofflers must be standard equipment for the guides on the Beaverhead. My last trip through Dillon took me to Safeway at 7am. There were four koffler boats in the parking lot and the the guides were inside buying ice and sandwiches.
     
  3. Jerry Daschofsky

    Jerry Daschofsky Moderator Staff Member

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    Rob, I can't speak for Mike, but if i recall right, those RMT's were a bit wider for the similar size over the pram. Plus believe they're shaped to be a bit more stable with fisherman fore/aft. Been a couple years since I've looked at one up close. But heading to Portland show in a couple weeks, will look at them again shortly. :)
     
  4. Jim Wheeler

    Jim Wheeler Full time single dad and pram builder

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    I feel I have to interject something here. The guys who have the Koffler's and Fish Rite's. Read the capacity plate word for word and I think you will see that it says something to the effect of "this boat is to be used in shallow water, not far from shore" and according to the US Coast Guard (who visit every other year or so) aluminum prams with those capacity plates are not to be used, marketed or advertised to be used in stillwaters, as fabulous as they might be for the job. It really comes down to a business decision and have thought that all along. I knew, when we designed our Hopper II series that they wouldl be also used in stillwaters. So, I decided to use up valuable floor space, expend the additional expense in both man hours and materials to put in flotation compartments for ethe safety of my customers. If you purchased (if even available) a flotation kit from either Koffler or Fish Rite I commend you for doing so, If not, be sure to wear, not sit on your flotation device. I think all manufacturers marketing to a specific market should have to ALL play by the same set of rules. Just a manufacturers .02
     
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  5. Rob Ast

    Rob Ast Active Member

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    Jim, Thanks for chiming in. I have read this from you several times, and certainly understand your points. I think your boats are well designed and constructed and I enjoyed the one I had. As stated, it just became too small for my needs. If I decide to go with another pram I certainly would still consider one of your 10' models. Oh, and PFDs are always worn in my boats.
     
  6. Mark Yoshida

    Mark Yoshida Active Member

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  7. Rob Ast

    Rob Ast Active Member

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    Mark, Nomlasder and I have a conversation going now, may have to stop by and look at the boat in person.
     
  8. Nick Clayton

    Nick Clayton Active Member

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    I'm not totally sure I understand the gist of this post. Are you claiming these boats are less seaworthy than yours? Why does the coast guard take such a stance? If they are approved for shallow water, near shore, why would it be bad to market them for small stillwaters?

    I've fished out of a Hopper II, and it's a sweet little boat for sure. However, for my money, I'll take the stability of my Fish Rite over it any day of the week. At 6'1 280lbs, I feel very confident in saying I feel much more comfortable in my Fish Rite than I do in the Hopper II. Again, absolutely nothing against your boats... If I was in the market for a glass boat I'd look hard at the Spring Creeks... Just trying to wrap my mind around all this.
     
  9. Mike Ediger

    Mike Ediger Active Member

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    Even though it was only 1 linear foot longer than the WWPram, you would be amazed at how much more room it has, and it was only a few hundred dollars more. It was a no brainer for me. I can take the wife and two girls easily. Very stable, lots of room, piece of cake to row (even my 9 yr/old likes to row), easy to fish out of, incredibly clean without a lot of things to catch line, etc. Joe Koffler was great to work with.....I couldn't be happier with my decision.
     
  10. Mike Ediger

    Mike Ediger Active Member

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    Yep, I answered before I saw your reply, but for not much more money, you will be amazed how much more room there is. GREAT set-up for both moving and still water.
     
  11. Rob Ast

    Rob Ast Active Member

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    Mike, do you find the 13' is the right length, or do you wish you had the 14'? What seat configuration/options did you pick (feel free to PM with details if you'd like).
     
  12. Nick Clayton

    Nick Clayton Active Member

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    Those RMT's are pretty sweet. First time I've seen one.
     
  13. Jim Wheeler

    Jim Wheeler Full time single dad and pram builder

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    First off, Rob, thanks for your support. It's always tough to respond to this type of post but it has to be said that the liability and safety has to be weighed as well in the decision.

    Nick, No they aren't less seaworthy by any means. What I am saying is that if you take a Koffler or Fish Rite, with no flotation if they capsize or fill with water they will sink like a rock with everything in it. Aluminum doesn't float very well. The "exemption" granted by the Coast Guard was originally applied for, on the behalf of all drift boat manufacturers some 40 years ago by "willie" of Willie boats I think. It was stated that the manufacturers wanted the exemption because, "in a river" they wanted the boat to sink so the occupants of the capsized drift boat would not be crushed by the hydraulics of a water filled boat if the people found themselves between the boat and either a rock or tree in the river. It made, and still makes total sense. What I am saying is that the boats with the exemptions should not be marketed or sold to those who will knowingly using them on lakes and estuaries without having flotation in them as is stated in many of those manufacturers advertising. As for the stability issue between the two boats. If I were to add about 40-60 # to the weight of my boat (which is about the "real" weight difference between the two) the Hopper II would seem a lot more stable. Weight equals stability. It's part of the equation of stability. I opted for weight savings which makes things happen quicker because there is less weight to move therefore it "seems" less stable. Interesting dilemna as a manufacturer as is the one for safety.

    As for the marketing aspect? Define "shallow" and "not far from shore". At what point does it become a safety issue? My thought would be any depth deeper than neck deep of the shortest person in the boat as, when the boat sinks they could still keep your head above water. Boats with US Coast Guard flotation will keep the occupants floating with the gunwales at the water level. Done properly you can actually bail the boat with flotation back to floating.

    Jim
     
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  14. Mike Ediger

    Mike Ediger Active Member

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    I have been told by a BC guide that I know, that Kofflers are very popular on the Bow River in AB.
     
  15. Rob Ast

    Rob Ast Active Member

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    Well, an update. I drove down to the Portland sportsmans show to talk to Joe Koffler and see the RMT boats. I may get one someday, but for now the size and weight will put too much of a crimp in the type of fishing I'm doing with my daughter (small local lakes, some of which you need to transport the boat short distances without the vehicle). As I stated previously I did like my spring creek pram, it was just too small. Solution - upgrade to a 10ft Hopper II off the board classifieds. Picking it up next week.
     
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