NFR: Demise of Livestock killing Cougar

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Itchy Dog, Apr 19, 2008.

  1. Jon Borcherding

    Jon Borcherding New Member

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    OK, I'll give it one more shot.

    Anthropomorphism:
    (an-thruh-puh-mawr-fiz-uhm) The attributing of human characteristics and purposes to inanimate objects, animals, plants, or other natural phenomena, or to God. To describe a rushing river as “angry” is to anthropomorphize it.

    My contention was that the video posted earlier in this thread was a good example of anthropomorphism. The author seems bent upon ascribing human characteristics to to wolf #253M.
    This is my opinion. I don't expect you to agree with me.
    Would you mind pointing out where you believe that I misused the word "anthropomorphism"?

    JonB
     
  2. Steve Buckner

    Steve Buckner Mother Nature's Son

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    Jon,
    You're my hero - I love realtors(especially those that golf)! Don't let anybody else tell you differently. Are you showing signs of cognitive dissonance?

    But back to Edward Abbey, have you ever read any of his stuff or did you just jump straight into that link? I suspect the latter...Nonetheless, he has had a significantly positive effect on opening peoples minds to the fact that our wild places are diminishing at the hands of those who want to further develope the land...people like you. It's no wonder that you would have an issue with someone like that...

    If you'd like to educate yourself, here is a fuller picture of what this guy was about (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Abbey) - protecting what's left of our wild places...and as much as I think you're a hero for selling houses, I think my idealogies are probably much more aligned with his...hope that's ok.

    On a friendly note, I hope your next trip to the Skookumchuck goes well...god knows that's dangerous country! I've heard rumors of lots of cougar there, and they've been known to kill a sheep or a goat...not country for anyone but a brave soul like yourself, and don't be surprised if you get roused by a methhead...
     
  3. Brett Angel

    Brett Angel Member

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    Jon,

    I went back and listened to the video and I'm still not hearing the human-specific characteristics applied to the wolf. The narrator is cheesy and does use this incident to get his singluar point of view across, but I'm not hearing the "humanizing" of the wolf.

    Per my tag on my earlier post...semantics and opinions.

    Steve, "The Monkey Wrench Gang" is a great book and worthy of a read. I'll have to check into Edward Abbey's other work. Thanks for the info Steve.

    Apologies for straying WAY off subject and wasting others time with this matter.
     
  4. HauntedByWaters

    HauntedByWaters Active Member

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    I don't know dude. I am not against hunting at all.

    I just thought it was lame that you linked to a word that everybody here knows as if a word proves anything beyond a doubt.

    You accuse him of anthropomorphism.

    I accuse you of anthropomorphobia.

    That is all.
     
  5. Jon Borcherding

    Jon Borcherding New Member

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    Steve, I'm flattered that you would take the time to research my occupation. Have you conducted a background check on me also?
    There seems to be a pattern here. When someone challenges the well meaning drivel of animal rights activists, rather than defend their ideology with a coherent argument they resort to attacking the character of the person who challenges their cherished beliefs.
    You're not the first poster to take that line in this thread but, you should be elligible for some kind of prize for the way that you smeared the Coach with your stereotyping nonsense.
    And why do you suspect that I just "jumped straight into that link"?
    Could it be that you have some preconceived notion of who I am based soley on the fact that I don't worship at the altar of direct action environmentalism? You seem to be offended that you get lumped in with the likes of PETA but your ideologies are, by your own admission, aligned with the man credited for inspiring the cult of direct action environmentalism. Personally, I detest such groups becaues they enjoy all the benefits of living in a democracy while they go outside that framework to further their causes with acts of sabotage.

    JonB
     
  6. Steve Buckner

    Steve Buckner Mother Nature's Son

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    Actually Jon, I'd say the smearing (at least as it concerns me) started in this thread with the direct reference from coachduff at me, which was then followed by your statements. which by the way, are kind of flattering - I do admire what Edward Abbey wrote and what his values were! And I'm still betting that you haven't read any of his books so why judge him? But back to topic, remember Jon, we've never met - so as long as you don't go inferring that you know something about me, I'll stop inferring I know something about you.

    Secondly, and for historical reference, the first time we interacted you suggested "cognitive dissonance" as your opening line toward me. Insulting isn't it? As you'll recall, this was your first attempt to discredit what I had to say on the topic at that time with an inference that "Steve's not very bright". Kind of rude behavior IMHO. So I'd submit, that this pattern of character assasination vs. debating the topic has been displayed by you repeatedly in this thread between you and others, directed from you at me next, as well as in the first thread where we "met".

    So, a word to the wise, if you want to play fair, then do so - but if you start with the character assasinations, it's game on.;) If you have the ability to stick with the debate, then do so. Sound fair enough?
     
  7. constructeur

    constructeur Active Member

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    this last page has me :rofl::rofl:

    Desert Solitaire- one of the best books I've read :thumb:
     
  8. Jon Borcherding

    Jon Borcherding New Member

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    Steve,
    All I know about you is what I've read here. You claim that your ideologies are aligned with the man who is credited with inspiring direct action environmentalism. Direct action environmentalism is an ideology well known for acts of arson, sabotage and vandalism committed by adherents to this form of activism. I am not engaging in character assasination. I'm simply pointing out facts.
    I'd also like to remind you that the Coach responded to your Edward Abbey quote
    I don't see how his response can be construed as a personal affront to you.
    As for the cognitive dissonance remark, i have only a vague recolection of that remark. Let's take a look:

    Originally posted by Steve:

    Steve's old quote:
    Originally posted by me:
    As you can plainly see I was stating that I was experiencing cognitive dissonance from reading your quotes. That's my own way of saying that I think you contradicted yourself. In no way did this exchange impugn your character, or intelligence.

    Again, is it entirely impossible to challenge your statements without being accused of character assasination?

    Where is the offending "character assasination", Steve?

    JonB
     
  9. Jon Borcherding

    Jon Borcherding New Member

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    Brett, I went back and listened too. In addition to the general tone of the narration which is as laden with as much pathetic sympathy as a parents eulogy for a lost child, I noticed these shining examples of anthropomorphism:

    JonB
     
  10. Steve Buckner

    Steve Buckner Mother Nature's Son

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    Jon, the problem is that you're choosing which "facts" to point out, and which of them to associate with me rather than debating the topic. As an example, suggesting that my ideologies are exactly aligned with Direct Environmentalism, sabotage, and vandalism might be interpreted as character assasination. Hmmm....Glad to see you're not heading down that road. You had me worried for a minute...

    Oh, and about that cognitive dissonance thing - yeah, what you said was insulting. Have you ever walked into a bar, and walked up to a person you've never met and said "Hey F.U.?" That approach doesn't usually go over so well. The same kind of thing happened in our first "meeting". Let me remind you once more that my signature at the time had nothing to do with the topic of debate, which I pointed out at the time very clearly. Do you want to talk about that discussion some more, or would you like to talk about the topic in this thread? And by the way, my signature now has nothing to do with the death of the cougar. Are you suggesting cognitive disssonance on this thread as well? You'd be using the same logic...

    Let me know,
    sb
     
  11. Jon Borcherding

    Jon Borcherding New Member

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    Steve,
    You are spinning.
    Nobody ever said "Hey F.U."
    We are not in bar.
    I never suggested that your ideology was aligned with direct action environmentalism, I simply pointed out that you claim an ideology that is aligned with the man credited with inspiring direct action environmentalism. I actually thought, and still believe, that you can see the difference.

    I don't understand this question:
    I would also like to point out that you have studiously avoided each and every question I have posed to you even while I have answered all of your accusations.
    It should also be noted that you have edited every post on this thread with the exception (so far) of you last post.
    We're way too far apart to achieve anything by continuing this debate.
    I'm going to go home now and sit on my sofa with a cold drink and admire the 7' cougar rug that hangs on my wall. I hope you have nice evening too.

    JonB
     
  12. Todd123

    Todd123 New Member

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    Just a FYI, PETA want's all wolves dead, same with all other animals.

    They are not a credible animal rights group in any meens. PETA would love that the cat was killed, they have a very negative stance in relocating animals. The way people chime their name out in agruements over the internet is way out of context to what the ladys beleifs are that runs the organization.

    On the other hand there are a lot of animal rights and earth activist groups that do a lot of great stuff all around the world that most people would never devote their life to and I would think most of you would appreciate what they have acheived. Im sure the hell glad they are doing what they do because without them a lot of things would be out of balance.
     
  13. Abel1

    Abel1 New Member

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    Oh what a awesome creature. The mountain lion has always been the apex
    predator in the forests in Washington state. This particular lion sealed his own fate when it chose to prey on livestock. I am a supporter of hound hunting and believe that it helps in the health of man and mountan lion.
     
  14. Itchy Dog

    Itchy Dog Some call me Kirk Werner

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    Is anyone else dying to see what happens on Dancing with the Stars tonight?
     
  15. prosopium

    prosopium Member

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    The key to it was "peta-like", as in ignorant and not in tune with today's society. Not to sure about wanting all wolves dead, i know they werent big on the re-introduction, because of the manipulated environment they were going into, and there biggest fear is domestication of wolves.

    Yes there are lots of good environmental groups that have done many good things, but sometimes some of those groups make poor decisions. i give my money to the FFF, rocky mountain elk foundation, and the mule deer foundation because i feel they will spend it in ways that make sense and are in the best interests of their supporters. i like things that the scierra club does, but at times they do some stupid stuff that i would be ashamed of if i knew my money had been part of it. And i dont even want to get started on the buffalo field campaign and some of these wolf groups, just pure ignorance.

    did you watch the video?