(NFR) Disaster of Epic Proportions

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Steve Buckner, Dec 30, 2004.

  1. chadk

    chadk Be the guide...

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    That does seem twisted. But then, if it were my son or daughter that needed urgent medical care - I might do all I can, blindly focusing my attention without realizing the actual selfishness at first. It is just hard to say without being in their shoes.

    Also, I'm sure this is not just an 'american' thing, but a universal rich\poor thing...
     
  2. Jason Baker

    Jason Baker Member

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    First some definitons:

    Islam: the religion of Muslims collectively which governs their civilization and way of life; the predominant religion of northern Africa, the Middle East, Pakistan and Indonesia

    Muslim: a believer or follower of Islam

    The % of muslims in affected countries as a % of population:

    Indonesia: 85%, Sri Lanka: 7%, India: 10%, Thai: 5%, Malaysia: 70%

    Now a fact: Indonesian, Sri Lankans, Indians, Thais, and Malaysians do not consider themselves "Arabs"

    Arab: a member of a Semitic people originally from the Arabian peninsula and surrounding territories who speaks Arabic and who inhabits much of the Middle East and northern Africa

    Arabian Tribes: Saracen,Bedouin,Beduin,Yemeni,Saudi; Saudi_Arabian, Qatari; Katari,Omani,Palestinian; Palestinian_Arab,Bahraini; Bahreini

    THE PEOPLE WE ARE HELPING ARE: CHRISTIANS, BUDDHISTS, HINDUS, AND MUSLIMS.

    Now an issue as a former soldier I hold close to my heart: The American Red
    Cross. A previous post made many poor implications about this great organization that assisted my fellow soldiers and myself in times of need. Did you know that if you are oversees and a loved one dies, they pay to get you home? Did you know that last year they transfer over 1.4 million emergency messages for soldiers in need?

    Some Red Cross Facts:

    *Raised over $400 million dollars and provided 20,000 nurses during WWI
    *Provided 104,000 nurses and sent 27 million care packages during WWII
    *Provide over 50% of the blood supply in the United States
    *Assists 175 Countries
    *It formed what is know today as FEMA
    *An early 2000 national survey by Yankelovich Partners showed that the American Red Cross was the most highly regarded of major U.S. charities, and Money magazine named the Red Cross one of the 10 best-managed charities in the country.
    *The American Red Cross annually mobilizes relief to the victims of more than 63,000 disasters nationwide. It has been the primary supplier of lifesaving blood and blood products in the United States for more than 50 years. In 2000 alone the Red Cross collected 6.3 million units of blood.

    I for one, am sick of the anti-government, anti-establishment, anti-American bantor from individuals on this site. I encourage all, before posting, to research your facts. Brash generalizing shows your ignorance!

    P.S. When you start a sentence with, "I don't hate all Arab people in general", you risk sounding like a racist. It's no differerent than saying, "I don't hate all blacks in general." Both comment are equally as unaccepatble! When you call a charitable organization "thieves, scoundrel, and bandits" you sound like one of those anti-estabishment/government members living in the hills. Intended or not! It's almost 2005; a political correctness class is much needed! :beathead:
     
  3. Bob Triggs

    Bob Triggs Stop Killing Wild Steelhead!

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    Gentlemen: Keep it civilized, respectful and keep strong personal comments between "Personal Messages".
    Keep the topic on track please.
     
  4. BOBLAWLESS

    BOBLAWLESS New Member

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    Jason.

    First, you need to learn to read. I did not say anything bad that I personally felt toward the Red Cross. Yea, I am giving them money.
    I pointed out that they have a bad reputation with many people and I wanted to demonstrate that I trust them well enough to forward some funds. If giving money is being critical, then I don't understand what is commendation. Have you sent any funds?

    On the Arabs. I am fully aware that most people affected by this disaster have nothing to do with the Arabs except they share the same religion. But it is this generalized notion that all muslims are Arabs that I was trying to point out as incorrect. And that I don't hate them. I have issues with some, those that would kill me on sight, but these poor muslims in this disaster have never killed anyone.

    Please save your defiinitions for a speech before a 7th grade class.

    Bob, the Is it really racist to say that you don't hate a generalized noun standing for various ethinic groups? :mad:
     
  5. Cactus

    Cactus Dana Miller

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    It's really sad to see people politicizing this tragedy! If you had bothered to check the news, you would have seen that we already had cargo planes flying in supplies and two ships with hospital facilities sailing towards the area the day after the event, even before the magnitude of this tragedy was fully known. That sounds like "right away" to me!

    Over 100,000 people have died! Can't people put aside their hatred for President Bush for just a little while?

    Thanks for the links, BR.
     
  6. Jason Baker

    Jason Baker Member

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    Bob:

    If you are happy with your response, I am as well.

    You used the words "thieves, scoundrels, and bandits" in your post. This will of course raise some eyebrows. If you'd like to make a more subtle point, use some less inflamatory words. Most 7th graders could help you compose a better paragraph if you were truly trying to show you supported the Red Cross and the "Arabs". Secondarily, most of the people affected were not "Arabs", nor do they share the same religion as the "Arabs." I don't use generalized terms for groups of people when they are vastly different in beliefs, tradtions, and customs. My life experience has told me that it's a poor idea to lump people into groups. The people affected were of many religions and ethnicities. Let's pray for them all....
     
  7. coonrad

    coonrad New Member

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    Yeah

    This is from an email from a women in Padang.
    Padang wasn't directly impacted by the wave, but interesting nonetheless:

    >The river our hotel sits on went nearly dry, water was sucked out at high
    >speed, then came rushing back. I think the rivers are the only thing that
    >saved Padang from coastal flooding. Easily, in 3 minutes, at least 1 ?
    >meters of water rushed out of the river, then for 5 minutes stopped moving,
    >then in 5 minutes, it had filled up again. It was a sight to see. All day
    >and all night it continued like this. There were squid swimming in our
    >river... never seen that before. Dogs were howling and barking all day and
    >night, cockroaches were leaving the fishing boats by the hundreds via ropes
    >tied to the land, leeches were climbing the banks to get away from the salt
    >water. I actually saw flying fish... in our river.

    That is amazing that the cockroaches knew what was up and decided to abandon ship.

    I think it's a sixth sense that humans once had and lost through our
    'domestication.' I think it may still be present in modern hunter gatherers
    and people that still have an initmate connection to nature.

    coornad
     
  8. Bright Rivers

    Bright Rivers Member

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    I think ol' Bob was just trying to say we should help these poor people. And he's right. If he made a mistake in lumping all the victims into a group, I made a similar mistake a couple days ago.

    My wife says, "Honey, I just heard this heartbreaking story about a mother in Somalia who lost her whole family in the tsunami."

    "Sweetie," I say (that's the term of affection I use when I'm about to be condescending), "I think you mean Indonesia."

    "No, Somalia. Where the tsunami hit," she says.

    "Dear," I say, "the tsunami hit Indonesia and Thailand. Somalia isn't even on the same corner of the globe. It's on a completely different continent. Africa, in fact."

    My fetching wife (having learned more than a decade ago what you people have suspected for mere months), knowing that I'm right about 40% of the time (making me 10% dumber than two bits), stuck to her guns and exlained what I would later learn from a map on CNN. That this disasterous wave had crossed two oceans and killed scores of people from Thailand to India to Sri Lanka to Somalia and Kenya. The scope of the carnage is literally mind boggling. I'm not sure there has ever in history been a catastrophe that has affected so many diverse people over such a large area.

    The world itself is in crisis.
     
  9. BOBLAWLESS

    BOBLAWLESS New Member

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    Good words, Bright Rivers. What with the war in Iraq and the fear of Iran as a nuclear power and the North African immigration into Southern France and Germany with riots in the Netherlands, we would be fools to pretend that the Arab world is not in crsis with the U.S. and Europe. It would be more clear to differentiate between Arabs and Muslims, though they both share the same religious values. In a way that was my point, however poorly stated.

    My hope is that this ongoing cultural clash between Christains and Islam will not impede relief efforts. That people will see people as just that-people- and not a religious or cultural group which they dislike is at the seat of understanding and the furtherance of tolerance and an end to prejudice.

    Bob, the I worked my whole life helping minorities of one sort or another in the ghettto school where I taught. To be called a racist does just rattle my cage a bit. :eek:
     
  10. Trevor

    Trevor New Member

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    I think that one of the things that I find most admirable in these times is that in these times of "me" how people will bend over backwards to help other people. Not just governments but regular ole people.

    It's true that we pay much less than other countries in terms of taxes. Consequently, there are some things that other countries have that we don't (i.e. socialized medicine). One of the things that it does allow us is the decision of where to spend our individual money. If you want the new fly rod, you can save your pennies and get it. If you want to give to the charity, you can do that too. The point is that it's your choice. I made the choice between a new vise and giving to the relief effort and feel pretty good about the decision.

    In addition to government, a great number of private companies are donating monetary and other aid for the victims. I read a great article about some of the big multinationals giving millions. My company is giving $700K plus matching any employee donations up to $350US for each employee. I think that's pretty cool.

    I truly empathize with with the folks in that neck of the woods, but it does warm my heart to see the tremendous outpouring from the entire world including organizations large and small.

    T
     
  11. David Holmes

    David Holmes Formerly known as "capmblade"

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    Doctors Without Borders has a handy form that you can print out and mail in a check.

    http://www.doctorswithoutborders-usa.org/donate/

    IMHO, we as American citizens must give generously if our government is only going to cough up a measly $35M. That was the number I heard yesterday -- I hope it has since increased to $35B.
     
  12. Mike Etgen

    Mike Etgen Not Quite A Luddite, But Can See One From Here

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    On the way home I was listening to the news on NPR and Colin Powell had announced earlier in the day that US Goverment contributions are being raised to $350 million - an increase of ten-fold.

    Interesting comments on this post, by the way. I recall my son calling me from back east on 9/11 and among other things, observing that the World Trade Center attecks were probably the biggest thing to have happened in his lifetime. I agreed, to include my own lifetime. Now I'm thinking this may top even that. I personally can't even begin to get my mind wrapped around a disaster as big as this one. Even the financial contributions we've all (governments, corporations, individuals), generous as they are. seem so inadequate. The plight of surviving children in particular has impacted my thoughts. I can't even imagine seeing one's entire world - parents, brothers, sisters, home - wiped away in a cosmic blink of an eye.

    It does, however, do me good to see how the people of this planet have reached out to assist their brethren. These kind of things, from the smallest and inconsequential setback to something as large as this, have a way of bringing out our best nature. Sure, mistakes will be made - I heard an incredible acount yesterday about how an Indonesian bureaucrat has postpones meeting with an Australian disaster relief representative because he hadn't officially started in his new position - but collectively, I think we'll see something nearly miraculous occur over time. And maybe some of those who divide the globe into good and evil will begin to recognize how really connected we all are.

    We're an interesting, bewildering, and sometimes magnificent species, aren't we?
     
  13. loneangler

    loneangler New Member

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    your only off by 316 million dollars, the US is giving 350 million dollars to help out. but you were soo close...
     
  14. Rob Bodkin

    Rob Bodkin Member

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    At the time of his post he was accurate, we increased the amount later, after much pressure.

    I was in the Navy in the late 80's, aircrew in large mine sweeping helicopters. We were stationed in San Fransisco during the world series quake in 89', we lifted heavy equipment onto the collapsed Nimitz freeway and flew food and water to cities that were briefly cut off by broken roads. it was the greatest experience of that 4 year hitch. That experience can not even compare to what our fleet is now doing in support of this deal, but it sure does feel great to see the fleet overseas showing the world what we are truly made of. Perhaps it will leave as indelible an imprint on the world as the pictures from Iraqi, but I fear it will not.
     
  15. Angler 77

    Angler 77 AKA Scott Jones

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    A girl from my work was in Indonesia at the time. With the rising death toll and the fact that none of us had heard anything from her the outlook was looking darker by the minute. Well I got a phone call from her an hour ago!!! She is in Vancouver and overjoyed to be home and alive.

    Have a safe New Year!