(NFR) F Exxon

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by ak_powder_monkey, Feb 19, 2008.

  1. o mykiss

    o mykiss Active Member

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    F Exxon

    Hate to burst your bubble, 509, but the amount of damages - punitive or otherwise - that will go to the plaintiffs lawyers in this case is but a fraction of the total potential award. Granted, they stand to earn a pretty penny, but at this point I don't think any of them have seen a dime and they've invested literally millions of their own dollars to pursue this case. I do agree that there is a lot of abuse by class action lawyers where the plaintiffs end up getting nothing other than a $20 gift certificate or something equally worthless (like equitable relief but no $$), but this is not one of those cases. The vast majority of any damage award in this case is going into the pockets of the people who actually suffered the harm.
     
  2. Ethan G.

    Ethan G. I do science.. on fish..

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    Well, until the officials are basicaly seen killing someone in broad daylight, I don't think they're gonna go to jail. We are way too laxed about white collar crime.
    -Ethan
     
  3. Jon Borcherding

    Jon Borcherding New Member

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    I think it's kind of interesting that so much of this case hinges on the alleged alcoholism of the captain and Exxon’s culpability in allowing Hazelwood to continue as a captain even though he was supposedly a known alcoholic.
    What about the rest of the chain of command aboard the Exxon Valdez?

    Who was at the helm at the time of the grounding?

    YES! I understand that the captain has the ultimate responsibility. I'm certainly NOT questioning that. However, the course of events immediately prior, and subsequent, to the grounding begs the questions:

    Are supertankers operated with just ONE competent officer on board?

    Are there currently supertankers in operation that we can expect to be run aground if the captain is disabled or debilitated for any reason?

    What measures have been put in place since 1989 to rectify this situation?

    Since no amount of money can replace or repair the damage done by this kind of catastrophe it is vitally important that changes are made in the way that tankers are operated. Does anyone know if these changes have been implemented?

    I recall a lot of discussion about double wall tankers and other measures to strengthen ship hulls. I submit that the problem was systemic within the chain of command.

    On a side note I was in Valdez with a very good friend who wrote her anthropology Masters thesis on the difference between man made and natural catastrophe based on the city of Valdez and the manner in which it handled the Alaska earthquake (which destroyed the city) and the Exxon spill. Both incidents occurred on Good Friday, 25 years apart.
    It was a very interesting study.

    JonB
     
  4. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    Jon,

    I think it's more than Hazelwood's alcoholism. It's that it was known to Exxon officials and accepted as part of a culture of alcohol use on board the tanker. Where was the rest of the crew? Apparently some were drinking with Hazelwood. I think it's that cultural acceptability of drinking on duty that nails Exxon's culpability.

    Sg
     
  5. ak_powder_monkey

    ak_powder_monkey Proud to Be Alaskan

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    F Exxon

    If they rule for actual damages with inflation exxon will be paying 10s of billions of dollars to the 30,000 plaintiffs. Plus how does one put a price on divorces and suicides?

    Hopefully the court doesn't do what I think it might and actually hold a corporation responsible for their actions.


    Also in case you missed it everyone in the oil industry from the producers, to the state, to the feds, to ALYESKA (pipeline people) said a spill would never happen since the pipeline project was concieved. Remeber that when pebble mine comes for permits.
     
  6. Jon Borcherding

    Jon Borcherding New Member

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    IF it is in evidence that other crew members were drinking at the time of the grounding and IF it is in evidence that Exxon leadership had knowledge then I could agree with your perspective.
    I don't know if there is such evidence or not.:confused:

    JonB
     
  7. Nick Riggs

    Nick Riggs I've been known to fish from time to time...

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    Put interlock devices on supertankers:rofl:
     
  8. cuponoodle breakfast

    cuponoodle breakfast Bigfoot is blurry

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    "In fact, when the ship hit, Captain Joe Hezelwood was nowhere near the wheel, but belowdecks, sleeping off his bender. The man left at the helm, the third mate, would never have hit Bligh Reef had he simply looked at his Raycas radar. But he could not, because the radar was not turned on. The complex Raycas system costs a lot to operate, so frugal Exxon management left it broken and useless for the entire year before the grounding."
    --Greg Palast, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy
     
  9. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

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  10. Lukebmoore

    Lukebmoore Flyguy

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    No doubt the cut that trial lawyers get should be limited but does anybody think that the Bush administration would have penalized Exxon at all. Don't forget Bush and Cheney are both oil guys. Is anybody naive enough to think that any Exxon execs would do hard time. If we are not able to make it painful for big business to stomp on our environment or our civil rights they will do just that if it means they get to put a few bucks in their pocket. Has anybody fished in Wyoming lately?
    Flyguy
     
  11. D3Smartie

    D3Smartie Active Member

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    F Exxon

    iagree As someone close to this case I can verify that the lawyers that have gone after Exxon and represented the many plaintifs, have not recieved a dime.
     
  12. Citori

    Citori Piscatorial Engineer

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    I assume no one has received anything since EXXON hasn't paid... The key is not who received what, the key is that the damages are PUNITIVE. Which is to say, "EXXON, you cannot pollute our world without being punished", and further to say, "All oil companies, and chemical companies, and (fill in the blank) companies, you cannot pollute our earth without serious consequences, without bearing the full costs of complete clean up (assuming it can be "cleaned up") AND without being punished".

    I think I am OK with sending that message, loud and clear...