If I made one of you concealed carry bubbas sit down and think a bit about why and how you do carry, than that was the whole idea. What was very interesting was how hotheaded and personal alot of you became and how fast you some of you guys who carry guns escalated things, even if online. Now for reality again. The truth of the matter is that in Washington there are no required training, no tests no nothing for a CCP. It's a matter of going down to the Police Station and being fingerprinted more or less. So a bunch of you have no fucking idea to what you are doing. That is my concern (to folks like Mike T) because you are putting me in danger. Lastly AS I AM you have two different times given me black and white answers to completely grey questions. In fact you are untrained and quite frankly your "There is only one answer" reply is a bit scary and complete and utter bullshit. Typical but scary. This is grey area stuff, not black and white, most of which leads to another human's death. But since none of you even have the foresight into addressing the "when do I pull it out" question, I give AS I AM props for trying. I got these quesitions from a poster on the DeadlyForce in Washington site. A poster on that website threw out the questions:
Hello, I'm a brand new CCP holder and had a few questions regarding the use of deadly force. I have searched google and this forum but to no avail. I'm curious as to what the law states about the use of deadly force; when is it warranted and what are the legal repercussions. I'm living in Washington state (I'm sure laws vary by state).
Hypothetical:
1. It's 3AM and someone forces entry into my home. What can I do legally?
2. I'm at the grocery store and some chump holds checker at gun point demanding money. What can I legally do?
Thank You very much. I'm sorry if this topic has been discussed many times before, if so can someone direct me to an old thread?
Thanks Again!!
The answer another poster sent in was I think well thought out and far more applicable than reciting me back the black and white Washington laws on deadly force. And I bet a whole bunch of us flyfishing types agree It goes like this:
Your looking for black and white answers to very gray questions.
First, it's not "what can I do legally?" but rather what are my options.
If someone is in your home who is not an invited guest, then why are they there? Is it one of your kids' friends looking for a couch to crash on after a few too many brews? Is it old man withers who thinks he still lives there? Is it a thief looking for a quick item to grab? Is this an armed robbery? The answer to your first question ranges from "nothing" to "open fire". Personally, I own nothing in my house that is worth a human life; Period. I will not stand before a jury or my creator and say "that laptop was worth more than the life of a stranger".
If however, this is someone armed, or threatening to myself, wife or kids then all bets are off, as in "Sow bear protecting cubs".
Your second question is likewise not open to a yes or no answer. Can you draw down on a robber? What is the setup? Did you just walk up to the checkout and see the cashier get bent over the counter and the gun getting the hammer thumbed back while the muzzle is buried in the nape of her neck? Or, you see someone pull a gun and demand cash and acting ready to bolt for the door as soon as the green hit's his hand. And, just to mix things up. How many are they? Is there a good backstop that will stop your missed or pass-through shot? Is the sidewalk busy with innocent people? Your gun may end up causing deaths that would never have occurred if you just stood back and take notes for the police. Rather than having a "Well done" you may end up getting a manslaughter charge or sued in a wrongful death case.
Here's the mindset we all need to have. It's not "when can I cap this guy?" but "how can I avoid trouble and never have to take this gun out, or take a human life?"
Anytime you pull a gun to engage trouble your on extremely thin ice, over a very swift river. Professionally trained LEO's loose their jobs and even do jail time every year for getting too far out over that thin ice. I'll only go there if there is absolutely no other way out.
Gos
Now if one of you (Steely Dan is the exception, he PMd me!) would have even approached an answer like this one, we all would have known you have a good concept and idea of why you are carrying a gun flyfishing. But NONE of you did and once again, it seems to lend to the idea that you are carrying for every reason but the right ones. So go ahead carry your asses off, it's a right a bunch of us have fought our asses off so you can. But it makes no sense flyfishing and a majority of you can't justify why you do. A bunch of you carry a concealed loaded firearm while FLYFISHING because it gives you a false sense of bravado and security. It's ridiculous. Each to his own and I am done with this subject.