(NFR) WMD's and a little perspective

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Luv2flyfish, May 21, 2004.

  1. Luv2flyfish

    Luv2flyfish Another Flyfisherman

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    I have been reading through all the political garbage on this site and only have to chime in on one thing.


    "13 months later some sarin gas turns up"

    being there, right now, trust me....if you think a couple teams from dag gone washington can sweep every nook and cranny of a COUNTRY and turn up every little hiding place, every card board box, every spider hole, every empty well, house, warehouse, alley way, dumpster, car trunk, foot locker, wardrobe in a country of however many million people.....you are missing it folks.

    13 months may seem like a long time. Let me put this is some sort of perspective on a MUCH smaller scale. Let me go hide my fly rods, all 8 of them, in the greater Seattle area. You go pick 100 of your friends.......and you got one month to go find my fly rods...... There are No other rules. no place that I cant hide them, ANYWHERE in the greater seattle area. If you think the bad guys play by the Washington, CNN rules.....think again!

    155mm artillery shells that are filled with sarin gas are NOT that big. We're not looking for titan missles here folks......we're looking for shoe boxes....that could be hidden ANYWHERE. Do you think the teams from washington that hold the fate of the political world in their hands are out digging in fields. You ever wonder how much shit you hide in the ground when you have time to prepare?

    Oh gee, we didnt find what we were looking for in all the likely spots.....well no sh&^ Sherlock.

    Quite frankly - I dont give a damn if the sarin was from iraq, syria, turkey, or dag gone ice land......I am glad that some was found...and the good guys have it. You guys dont have SHIT to worry about! any damn blast that comes about every day could be some of that sarin that the Washington-Ites DIDNT find cuz it wasnt in the likely spot.....and guess what - My Fly Fishing days are over.

    This is a 3rd world shitty country.......there isnt going to be the mother load that you all expect. This is small scale, not large scale. This is some knuckle head on the road in a huge city with whatever his weapon is. He's got 500 bucks in his pocket and his holy quest in life is to kill an american. Can you say Needles in Hay stacks? And that one knuckle head....he can do alot of damage.

    These people are not stupid by any means. If you could see how their tactics change every single day it would paint a clearer picture.

    Another point - CNN and fox news are NOT the world leaders in FACTUAL information. If people want to know what is really going on, go out and get a strategic level job in this country. Go sit in some top level pentagon, DoD, State Department jobs. Come put on a uniform and be the CJTF-7 Commander. You sift through the intelligence, YOU determine what is actionable and useless, You send out YOUR troops, YOU figure out where the bad guys hide bad stuff, YOU answer all the questions.

    CNN and FOX News dont know a damn thing. They broadcast out nothing but political OPINIONS. The news is sooooo heavy with one side or the other. There is reason that all useful information in this country is not broadcast.

    ITS NOT FOR EVERY CITIZEN TO KNOW!!!! There is a REASON that people have Security Clearances, there is a reason there are CLASSIFIED breifings to the President of the United States, good bad or indifferent.

    I dont know what the hell is going on, Not one single person on this board knows what the hell is going on. We all have opinions. They are like armpits, we all have a couple, and they all stink. And I have just Aired mine out.

    I am going out in a few minutes in this wonderful country to go handle the business. I hope some knuckle head from washington found all the shit on these streets that could kill me at any moment. Oh yeah, dont forget to dig up under the sidewalks and break open the curbs.....they hide things there that go BOOM and kill people. Thats not a very likely spot now is it? Ya just never know what might be a bi-product of that BOOM either.

    Tight Lines!
     
  2. packrat

    packrat New Member

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    WMD's and a little perspective

    Thanks for the post.
     
  3. Mike Wade

    Mike Wade Member

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    WMD's and a little perspective

    Thank you for the post,your service,and putting this in perspective for those of us that post our uninformed opinions on this site.I have great respect for you and what you say.I am sure it is much more accurate than anything we get on the news over here.
    Again,Thanks
     
  4. willieboat

    willieboat Member

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    WMD's and a little perspective

    However,
    We know that China and other countries have this stuff. But mummmmmms the word.:beathead
     
  5. Scott

    Scott New Member

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    WMD's and a little perspective

    China and other countries are not using it on their citizens and neighbors... Just thought I would point that out.
     
  6. Nailknot

    Nailknot Active Member

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    WMD's and a little perspective

    Luv2FlyFish. Here's something to think about: We've always lived in an uncertain world, we do today, and we will tomorrow. Get used to it. If you want to invade every country with sarin gas, you don't have my vote. Or we could find paths other than Soviet style threats (join us or be demolished). Of course it didn't work for the Soviets. USA is supposed to be different, and the way we are different is taking the high road for the long term. It is tough, but rightious.
     
  7. BOBLAWLESS

    BOBLAWLESS New Member

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    WMD's and a little perspective

    We can only look at history and try to learn something from it or be doomed to repeat it.

    Viet Nam (and I was a vetreran of that war) was a humiliating defeat for us--the Communist took over the entire country and we were lucky to evacuate in time to save at east some of our troops and a few friends. Most of our "friends" were executed and our equipment and supplies and air fields and bases were abanadoned.

    I only repeat this to show that what happened in Viet Nam, Camabodia etc. was not very pretty--we gave billions of dollars, money that could have gone to build schools, killed some of our finest citizens, people that would be with us today, and yet we got nothing in return.

    We worry that the same war machine, the industrial military complex, that put that war in motion is putting on the show in Iraq today.

    We do not care to lose again what we lost in Souteast Asia and we want our troops home before we have another "Viet Nam Memorial" were thousands of names are chisled in stone in some grassy vale in Washington, D.C.

    If Iraq decends into a civil war between the Sunnis and the Shiites and a blood bath goes on for years and we must again pull out with little gained and much lost, we will again be sickened, not at our troops, but at those leaders who started all this up. They will just be out of office. Others will be out of their lives.

    I dearly hope you are not one of these others. Stay safe. You have my full support.

    Bob, the Can't wait till November. :beer2
     
  8. Steve Buckner

    Steve Buckner Mother Nature's Son

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    WMD's and a little perspective

    Luv2flyfish,
    For me, the issue is that GW Bush declared Iraq an "immediate threat", emphasizing that Iraq could have missles loaded with WMD's within a 45 minute window. The scare tactic used by the Bush administration lead congress to give the president the power to declare war on Iraq. This is only the second time in history that congress has given the president cart blanche on declaring war, the first time was during the Vietnam war. This was a very heated debate in the fall of 2002.

    Documents show that before Bush ever took office, his administration had already decided to invade Iraq. In early 2003, the war began and various journalists were imbedded with the infantry to bring back live reports. America thought we would sustain heavy casualties because Iraq threatened to use WMD's. Within weeks of the invasion, all of our fears melted away as we realized that Iraq did not have the ability to utilize them. Undoubtedly, Saddam would have used them if he had had them.

    Shortly after the first Iraq war, UNSCOM had a team of inspectors in the country. If I'm not mistaken, they were there from 1991 to 1998. There mission was to destroy the capabilities of Iraq from creating WMD's. They documented the destruction of the labs, the chemicals and the means of Iraq to create these weapons. Prior to the war in 2003, the UN inspectors were also on site in Iraq, monitoring and investigating alleged abuses of resolution 687 that Iraq signed prohibiting them from building WMD's. Iraq was contained at this point, they were heavily monitored.

    To further make my point, the Bush administration has now renamed it's mission in Iraq as a mission to "free the Iraqi people". It has done away with it's original name to make this war more appealing to the general public. And while that is probably a good thing, if the U.S. role is to free all nations under tyranny, we've got hundreds still to "invade". To say the argument for this war was due to the threat of the imminent use of WMD's has fallen short is an understatement.

    Let's not forget that just prior to the war with Iraq, North Korea claimed to have 2 nuclear bombs. These claims were verified by scientists working for the UN. For whatever reason, the Bush administration had their sites set on Iraq.

    Scott Ritter was the chief inspector of UNSCOM in 1998. He was very much against the invasion of Iraq because of his knowledge that Iraq could not have built WMD's in the short time since UNSCOM left the country. Iraq did not have the labs or the means to have built WMD's. Here is an article in which he was interviewed in the fall of 2002. Scott would very much be in the know about chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons and his claim is "'Even if Iraq managed to hide these weapons, what they are now hiding is harmless goo" Here is the full story:


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,794771,00.html

    Certainly, nobody on this board or anyhere knows all that there is to know on this topic. However, some of us are pretty informed. We're also critical and skeptical of the U.S. because of what we've witnessed in our lifetimes.

    And while I support you and the rest of the US Troops in Iraq, I don't believe we should be there or that our cause for this invasion was justified. Furthermore, I can't blame the insurgents for rising up against this invasion as we would do the same thing in this country if the roles were reversed.

    Steve Buckner
    www.northwestflyfisherman.com
     
  9. Kalm

    Kalm Member

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    WMD's and a little perspective

    Luv2flyfish,

    Despite being one of those who is opposed to the war in Iraq, I totally appreciate your perspective. And one thing we liberals refuse to be is close minded (A closed mind is the antithesis of liberalism). So your reports on the state of affairs over there provide valuable insight. You're absolutely correct about no one knowing what the hell is going on. So please don't let the anti-war armpits you find on these nfr posts discourage you. Taken as a whole, the differing opinions, historical perspectives, and occassional facts can help us all to become more enlightened and understanding of opposing views.

    Thanks for all your efforts, and I hope you're back fishing on your home waters soon. In the mean-time, we'll be sure and save a few fish for you.

    Kalm
     
  10. Matt Burke

    Matt Burke Active Member

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    WMD's and a little perspective

    Love2flyfish,

    After eight years in the Army myself, I don’t have anything to say about your job over there. I wish I could fit back into my BDU’s and run around with you in the back of some Hummer on patrol. You and I both know what we singed up for, to kill as many Godless son of a b!tches that we can find. I miss the bond of a squad, you’re closer than brothers and watching out for each others ass. I wish I were with you.

    But sitting back here in the world, I’m pissed at George because he is an incompetent ass. Now I know your gung ho and don’t like people talking bad about your boss, but 130,000 troops for a country that size is ridiculous. Maybe 350,000 or better. And I don’t mean those losers in the rear, I mean 350,000 pissed off infantry, sweeping through the streets at will in fully armored vehicles. This half assed effort will get us nowhere. They’re never going to love us so showering them hugs and kisses ain’t going to get us squat. After nabbing Saddam, I think you guys should have march ordered and drove straight through Iran, Afghanistan and into Pakistan. After all, It was Bin Laden we were after to begin with and the bastard is still out there. There are 3000 souls still there where the twin towers used to be, screaming for Justice. If we are not going to give 110 percent of our resources, then we should get the hell out of there. Or at least be in the right country.

    I voted for Bush because I thought he would kill them all and then 9/11 came. In the process, he has destroyed everything the Demos had built and still hasn’t got Bin Laden hanging on the fence of the white house. So screw him, I’m going back to voting Demo.

    I wish I was there with you brother.

    Matt Burke
     
  11. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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    WMD's and a little perspective

    News flash in today's paper: looks like the administration's primary source of information alleging WMDs in the first place was an agent of the Iranian intelligence services. The 'documents' adminsitraion confidant Ahmed Chalibi presented to Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz that 'verified' Saddam's WMD's existence were likely forgeries funneled to the gullible neo-cons by the Iranians, still smarting from their bloody 1980s war with Iraq.

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001935950_iranchalabi22.html
     
  12. Matt Burke

    Matt Burke Active Member

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    WMD's and a little perspective

    Another example of incompetence. Just keep your head low luv2flyfish so we go fishing when you get back.

    Matt Burke
     
  13. Steve Buckner

    Steve Buckner Mother Nature's Son

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    WMD's and a little perspective

    Fortuna,
    Thanks for finding that. This will be more bad news for the Bush Administration. GW Bush should get the same treatment for invading Iraq as Saddam got for invading Kuwait. GW Bush and Rumsfeld should stand trial for their attrocities.

    Once again, our government has lied to the U.S. and the world...sad indeed.

    Steve Buckner
    www.northwestflyfisherman.com
     
  14. ChrisC

    ChrisC Active Member

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    WMD's and a little perspective

    "for those of us that post our uninformed opinions on this site"

    That could go either way. Only history will prove out who's less wrong.
     
  15. bugnuts

    bugnuts Member

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    WMD's and a little perspective

    One thing is clear...this forum has a number of "conspiracy theorists" who think they are informed and who say they know the facts, when in reality they are not and do not. At least I admit right up front that I don't know anything more than what I've read and heard in a variety of biased media, and unless I had spent the last year working as a staffer in the Pentagon or as a soldier deployed in Iraq, I'm not supposed to be in the know.

    So how do these guys respond to a cogent statement from the WFF member in the best position to comment on the whole situation? They gloss right over what he said and continue trying establish some high-level conspiracy to get us into war, and they keep spewing the same old anti-Bush rhetoric.

    I was glad to hear from Iraq this morning, and I was especially glad to get the feeling that our troops still feel there's an important job to be done. As I've said before, I think the President, based on all the information he possessed at the time, truly believed that it was America's duty to act and that his actions, though certainly subject to debate, have been taken in good faith. I also agree, however, that we owe it to the troops to do any and every thing necessary to aid in completing the mission and getting them back home as soon as possible.