Ooh, ah, awestruck..

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by Jeremy Floyd, Sep 28, 2017.

  1. Klickrolf

    Klickrolf Active Member

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    I think all PNW fly fishermen who target wild steelhead should think long and hard about this! There is way more going on here than is readily apparent. Twenty-five years ago there were very few, none that I know of, fly shops hiring guides and charging clients $500/day to chase wild steelhead. Today we've come up with C&R, NFS, WFC, keepemwet, two is enough, etc. How can this work? Truth is fishing is a lifestyle, a choice of things to do to enjoy yourself. It's all about success, success sometimes isn't useful. Fly fishing for steelhead has become an elitist endeavor and it ain't helping the fish! No scientific study has ever "known" the life condition of any fish they've ever handled or evaluated, NONE! Some things are obvious, a dead fish doesn't spawn and a live fish that's been hooked enough times doesn't spawn either. One thing we do all know, a steelhead has a better chance of reproducing if it's never caught. If we could remove the commercial value of wild steelhead we could search for a much better place.

    Keep doing your thing Jeremy, hopefully we all keep doing our thing!
     
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  2. b_illymac

    b_illymac Member Active

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    I say this 100% separate from Jeremy and the picture as I wasnt there, but common sense says fish handling and mortality go hand in hand right? No studies needed Klick...
     
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  3. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Well-Known Member

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    Klick,

    You may be younger than I thought. There may not have been many, but there was at least one fly shop that began offering guided fly fishing trips for steelhead with John Farrar in 1981. John began doing it in partnership with Bob Aid. I, and quite a few other anglers, thought he must be crazy; no one in going to pay and hire a guide for such a low odds proposition as fly fishing for steelhead. Boy, were we wrong. John was working at Archer & Angler (later to become Avid Angler) and met customers in the shop who were seeking guides to take them steelhead fly fishing. Within a couple years there were at least a half dozen fly shops in the Puget Sound area that offered guided steelhead trips. Of course it didn't cost $500/day in 1981; more like $150 to $200/day.

    Fishing is definitely a lifestyle for some, but you take it too broadly. For a lot more people it's just one of several or many things they do. You say it's all about success, but I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that, unless you're referring to those anglers for whom fishing is a numbers game. And I think there are a lot of other things higher on the list of things not good for steelhead than fly fishing for them, with the elitism being irrelevant to the equation. However I'm not saying that either elitism or fly fishing is good for steelhead. But all things considered, it's pretty far down the scale. But since you suggest that fishing for steelhead is so bad for them, are you wanting to prohibit steelhead fishing? I don't think you're being very clear here.

    Sg
     
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  4. Klickrolf

    Klickrolf Active Member

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    Of course, more handling means more mortality, no studies needed! Some things are obvious and some assumptions are made based on specified science but zero understanding.
     
  5. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Well-Known Member

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    Not just common sense. A lot of direct observation and some studies indicate the correlation between the quality of fish handling and subsequent mortality. Better handling results in lower mortality, except for hooking location. Hooking location is the number one factor related to incidental mortality of hook-and-line caught fish.
     
  6. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Well-Known Member

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    This is simply untrue Klick. In order for it to be true you have to make a lot of unspecified assumptions. Studies already indicate that hooking location is the number one factor related to mortality. Second to that would be the quality of handling. I haven't done such a study, but I think I could persuade even you that fish handled carefully experience a lower mortality rate than fish handled badly, even where the fish handled carefully are handled for a longer time than those handled badly. Careful handling results in less slime loss, fewer bruises and contusions; that's got to result in lower mortality after accounting for hooking location.
     
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  7. Klickrolf

    Klickrolf Active Member

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    You missed the entire intent of my post, and the entire truth of my post! The more times a fish is landed the less chance of survival, go ahead and debate that! You don't need my opinion! Each occasion is different and fish is different and you have no idea what the fish has encountered prior to your handling. If a fish is handled in the water for an hour it likely won't lose much slime unless the angler moves it around a bunch. I'm not trying to argue with you but you'll have to admit that handling and time in hand decrease survival, even if your "trying" to use best practices! Fish hooked in the gills or hooked deeply are not usual when fly fishing. Therefore I discount hooking location while fly fishing.
     
  8. Jeremy Floyd

    Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

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    Without reservation
     
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  9. b_illymac

    b_illymac Member Active

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    Klick you lost me. You stated: "No scientific study has ever "known" the life condition of any fish they've ever handled or evaluated, NONE!." Although I believe studies have been done I was attempting to point out it doesnt matter as common sense would prevail.

    But now you are saying you agree with me so I don't get your original point?
     
  10. Klickrolf

    Klickrolf Active Member

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    My original point was steelhead encounter lots of energy that makes their journey difficult. As in swimming upstream, through gill nets and often over waterfalls. You might catch a fish that is expiring but you might not know it. So, you C&R it but you know nothing of it's condition prior to your C&R. It might have expired regardless of your C&R. You certainly don't know! It's a tough return to spawn life for steelhead.

    That's only for returning adults. For outmigrating smolts in the Columbia system it usually doesn't include salt water because most of them don't get there.

    Welcome back for a third time Jeremy! We got too many perfect fly fisher people around here, that's pretty obvious!
     
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  11. Swimmy

    Swimmy Riffle > Run > Pool

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    Not that I disagree but then why even come back?

    And does this mean you will reload all your media? Back off on your cease and desist? Return to teaching everyone the stuff you have learned over a lifetime of fishing?

    Just don't want all the douchebags here to be disappointed. [​IMG]
     
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  12. Jeremy Floyd

    Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

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    I admit it. I was smitten with awe over the content of late. It's so enthralling to see nothing of value.