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Outcast Commander review

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17K views 34 replies 20 participants last post by  David A. 
#1 ·
Caveats: I'm not a fin fisher, I use my boats to get from run to run and jump out when I get to them. Also the Kalama isn't by any means a technical river; every few years someone will sink a boat on it, but I'm an absolute novice rower yet have no issues managing it in larger catarafts and the smaller 'toons I've used in the past. My experience rowing is very limited to small single man pontoons and a few larger 15' and 16' cats.

I recently ended a long quest to replace my aging 8' Waterskeeter pontoon boat. I'm one of those people who wrings his hands over purchases like this; I tend to scrutinize every detail and waver back and forth for ages on what to buy. In essence, I'm as long winded in my purchases as I am with my posts :)

I'd looked for a long time at a Watermaster, and almost went for the purchase. The guys at Big Sky are awesome, super nice and they have a tried and true product that's been on the market for quite a while. I also looked at some of the NFO frameless options, but to be honest I had a hard time deciphering all the available boats, and the prices on those I liked were a bit out of my range. After pursuing the topic a bit with Freestone (who like Mumbles seems to have some weird boat fetish), I ended up going with the Commander. The rocker design made sense to me, and Outcast has a solid reputation. There weren't a lot of reviews on the product, but the deal maker for me was the rocker, and the amount of room behind the seat.

After I got it, the first thing that struck me is that it's a lot bigger than it looks in the pictures. Of course they tell you that it's 10' long and 4' wide, but that didn't really register until I had the thing blown up in front of me. Despite the size, it's very light and easy to lift when standing from the rowers seat.

The seat option is not amazing. I only have hard-back cat seats to compare it to, but personally, I like a captains chair with beer holders :) That being said, once I fiddled with it a bit, it was comfortable and I could lean my massive girth back in it without worrying about falling back. Essentially, the seat back is firm, you just have to get the strap lengths set correctly and attached to the right D rings on the boat.

The floor is very stiff, and there is a decent amount of room behind the rowers back (enough that I can fit my daughter with our small fishing packs.) It's not enough for two adults, but an adult/kid or an adult and some half-racks of beer and gear will fit nicely.

While the air bladders are only single chamber, the pvc shell is super stiff, giving it a hardened feel I'm not used to with my cat tubes. I don't know if that will make a difference in the long run with durability, but at the least, it feels pretty damn stiff.

The built in Scotty rod holder is pretty swank, although I'll probably just get a cup-holder adapter for it and keep my beer there. If you're into trolling lakes, I guess it could be useful for it's intended purpose.

At first I was a bit worried about what I call the "oar action centers", or the flexible oar platforms welded to the boat. It seems like an area that will dig against the PVC shell and wear over time. However, the platforms seem to flex at the same stiffness as the PVC as I rowed, so my angst was probably for naught.

The oars themselves felt like they should be longer, but the boat doesn't need much rowing power to maneuver. I'm used to fighting bigger catarafts, so I essentially had to force myself to relax and take it easy. I could easily hold it in current without fins, and it turns with no effort and quickly. It maneuvered through rapids like a champ, even the shallower drags we face at this time of year. With the rocker the print on the water is minimal. My only surprise was that being so low in the water, when you hit chop, you can get fucking wet. Something I haven't dealt with in 'toons.

I intentionally took it through some tights spots and ended up slamming the boat killer below Pritchards (there's a reason people don't go river right there.) The same rock had a hard kayak wrapped in half on it late last summer (it literally folded the thing around the rock, which was kind of nice, the rock had a big-ass big red flag on it for several weeks). The Commander just slid up a little onto it, then carried on as if nothing had happened. I'm not sure I'd do it again that way, but it managed (although I did get soaked.)

So, my conclusion--I'm super happy with the purchase. It's definitely nicer than any single-man toon I've run before. I'd like to get out with one of my buddies that owns a Watermaster or NFO frameless and do a side-by-side comparison. For my Spring through Fall one-man floats, this is going to be a blast. For winter, I'll stick to my 15' ghetto-cat or something that keeps me dryer.
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#3 ·
Great detailed review. I've got a NFO Outcast Assault for a side by side. You've got a nifty river in the neighborhood. I know Freestone liked that boat, now with your review I'm intrigued!
 
#6 ·
Looks good in your pic, rigged up on the river. I walked into Waters West in Port Angeles Monday, and they have one set up just inside the door.

Its a very interesting looking raft. I like how they kept it fairly simple.

I joked to Dave that "Hey, I see you've got my next boat!"
Not missing a beat, he immediately called my bluff and offered to sell it to me right then and there!
He also has an inflated Watermaster hanging up on the back wall.

Of course I need to do more research. I look forward to reading your upcoming reviews after you have run a few streams in it.

If one was wearing one of those kayak angler drysuits, cold winter water might not be a problem.
 
#7 ·
Tried to order two one for the shop and one for a customer and Outcast is sold out. Wont have any more until October. They said the have been really selling fast. Looks like it wont be until fall, that I will be able to try it out.
jesse
 
#9 ·
Are the tubes really just 11" in diameter? Love the look of the boat but how far is your butt off the water when in the seat? Any idea how much water it draws? Looks like a great option here in SW Colorado on the small rivers that get low and rocky shortly after runoff. I have a 13' Sotar Cat with a frame for two but need something for low water solo use.
 
#10 ·
Thought I'd resurrect this thread as I'm strongly considering a Commander & the price is right. This site is about the only one that has several reviews on the boat. Very nice, in depth review.

What are your thoughts now that you've owned it for a while? (or if anyone else happens to read this and owns one).

Cheers,
Randy
 
#25 ·
Thought I'd resurrect this thread as I'm strongly considering a Commander & the price is right. This site is about the only one that has several reviews on the boat. Very nice, in depth review.

What are your thoughts now that you've owned it for a while? (or if anyone else happens to read this and owns one).

Cheers,
Randy
I love it. Absolutely hands down one of the best purchases I've ever made. It's really fun on the water, something I haven't experienced with previous watercraft. And I can't really say why-it's just enjoyable. I don't hassle with stuff like I do in a framed cat. It scoots and maneuvers like it's doing the Hokey Pokey on roller skates. The thing gets where it needs to and best of all I can just pick it up and move it past anything that looks questionable to me.

I don't use it in winter. You will get wet in it. It's probably not the boat for multi-day trips unless you're a light packer. But for my day jaunts and after-work trips it's perfect.
 
#11 ·
I have a Commander. I love it. Every boat is a compromise, but this one does it pretty well. It is light, it tracks well, and it's a scream in classIII. I like being able to scoot down the river stopping and standing to throw a few casts whenever I like. There's loads of room for gear behind the rower, and I like the adjustable foot rests. It's a pretty comfy ride. I don't like not being able to feather the oars, but that's an issue with all frameless boats without oarlocks. You get wet punching over rollers/standing waves but not to the point that I mind. This is my 2nd boat from Outcast, and the fit and finish/quality is great. Those guys are a pleasure to do business with. I'd happily let someone give it a whirl in exchange for high grade coccaine, or pre 1985 midget porn.
Jason


(cut and paste from a similar thread.)
 
#13 ·
I have a Commander. I love it. Every boat is a compromise, but this one does it pretty well. It is light, it tracks well, and it's a scream in classIII. I like being able to scoot down the river stopping and standing to throw a few casts whenever I like. There's loads of room for gear behind the rower, and I like the adjustable foot rests. It's a pretty comfy ride. I don't like not being able to feather the oars, but that's an issue with all frameless boats without oarlocks. You get wet punching over rollers/standing waves but not to the point that I mind. This is my 2nd boat from Outcast, and the fit and finish/quality is great. Those guys are a pleasure to do business with. I'd happily let someone give it a whirl in exchange for high grade coccaine, or pre 1985 midget porn.
Jason

(cut and paste from a similar thread.)
Interesting choice of words here. Something to contemplate for the faint of heart. :D
 
#18 ·
All this "Falls" talk with the Outcast Commander is pure bafflegab. You guys KNOW that the Outcast Commander doesn't carry the coveted Class 5 whitewater rating that only most Scadden boats have. Some may hold the lack of Class 5 rating (or any rating for that matter) as a disadvantage of the Outcast Commander.
 
#20 ·
whats with the class 5 ratings........I understood that rapids are rated class 1 to 5 etc not really boats .... is there a specific standard to which these r built ....and a governing body...as in a certification ?
Aftr all rafting operators even run bodyboards down class 5 rivers....as long as you r in the right lifevest
 
#21 ·
whats with the class 5 ratings........I understood that rapids are rated class 1 to 5 etc not really boats .... is there a specific standard to which these r built ....and a governing body...as in a certification ?
Aftr all rafting operators even run bodyboards down class 5 rivers....as long as you r in the right lifevest
BDD is probable more qualified to aqnswer this question but:
You are correct in stating rivers are rated not boats. A manufacturer can put whatever weight capacity and "whitewater" rating on it he wants. It is my contention that it is irresponsible advertising. Invariably some novice is going to load a frameless inflatable to the maximum rating, and then take it down some really difficult whitewater river and get himself killed, all because "it said it was rated".
Buyer Beware!!!!!!!!!!!1
jesse
 
#22 ·
Thanks for the clarification, as a professional rafting guide, I can give you my opinion.
So I agree that calling any boat a class 4 and up rating is irresponsible in that implys that a novice could tackle class 4 with it.
It should be said that the paddler that can be rated and not so much the boat.
Any higher than this requires scouting and river reading skills. Class 4 implies that there are serious dangers if
you take the wrong approach.
All this said if you have the skill AND some back up ...ie another boat at least ...you can use any boat to run the rapids.
Class 3 and under are safe and should you swim there will be no serious consequances .
If I were asked to rate these boats, I would say stick to class 3 for all except the big cats with proper oar rigs which in skilled hands could navigate call 4 and above.
 
#23 ·
I've come to the conclusion that anyone who gives their boat a class 5 rating must do it by strapping a cage onto their boats with a family of lab rats inside and then letting it float through a class 5 rapid. If it lands upright at the bottom of the rapid and all the rats are accounted for the boat is class 5 rated. If the boat gets flipped but the rats are ok it's class 4 rated. If the boat is flipped and the cage falls off and the rats go missing or die its only class 3 rated.
 
#26 ·
Interesting reviews. For those of you who have one, do you carry a second/third rod and if so how does it work on the Commander? Also when you travel with it do you deflate it completely or leave it inflated and just tie it down in the bed of a pickup? I take it from the reviews that it works fine with a XXL size person? After reading this thread it looks like these craft will be a hot item for a while.
 
#27 ·
Well, just got the boat. Inflated it in the living room, went through some "water" very "fast" with the kiddo hanging out behind the seat, also fits the dog behind the seat. Just playing around with it in the living room, this boat is slick. I can't wait to get 'er on the water. I also picked up the K-200 pump. What a great little pump. It took me less than 10 minutes to go from sealed in the box to fully setup. I'll throw up a full review once I have a chance to play around with it on the water little bit.

Cheers
 
#28 ·
Well, just got the boat. Inflated it in the living room, went through some "water" very "fast" with the kiddo hanging out behind the seat, also fits the dog behind the seat. Just playing around with it in the living room, this boat is slick. I can't wait to get 'er on the water. I also picked up the K-200 pump. What a great little pump. It took me less than 10 minutes to go from sealed in the box to fully setup. I'll throw up a full review once I have a chance to play around with it on the water little bit.

Cheers
I am anxious to read the full review...did you start a new thread?
 
#31 ·
Flyborg, thanks for this review.

It was very helpful in my decision to purchase a Commander myself. I also have a tendency to labor over such decisions so I read lots of reviews but this is the best one I saw anywhere.

I bought a commander just before Xmas and sad to say just got it in the river yesterday.

I love it, and everything you said was spot on.

I do have a better understanding of what all the folks who said it was a wet ride meant though. I figured if I was in waders and a wading jacket, I'd stay pretty dry, not so much...I hit a wave just right and got a face full of the Yak. A 40 degree facial on a cool morning will definitely wake you up.

Anyway thanks again and good job with the review.
 
#34 ·
Flyborg, thanks for this review.

It was very helpful in my decision to purchase a Commander myself. I also have a tendency to labor over such decisions so I read lots of reviews but this is the best one I saw anywhere.
Thanks from me as well..:cool:

There's no opportunity to have a look at a lot of these boats here in Australia so on-line reviews and comparisons are a big help in the decision.

My new Commander should get here any day ..;)
 
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