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Over & Under Suggestions

6K views 71 replies 22 participants last post by  martyg 
#1 ·
So, I spent Saturday with a couple of other guys on the forum at a fun day at HHR&G club. Shooting went just fine, the hitting was a disappointment. I wasn't the worst but way back for the high number for the day.

I currently have an old reliable 12 ga. 870 pump. The pump is tough on the skeet range. I did manage to hit the fence though on the right hand swing.

Considering an over & under. Not necessarily looking to go cheap but not looking for a pricey set up.

Suggestions / comments / recomendations?

MB
 
#34 ·
He's been a good source for me to sort out who is doing what. The Italian gun that was actually made in Turkey, that sort of stuff. So far I've found no on else willing to name drop who is making what where, which leads to me being able to goggle all that intel up and dig deeper. I like that when he slags off CZ (etc.) , he gives specific critiques; such as some triggers being heavier that the actual gun. That's the sort of stuff that would drive me nuts, and the kind of thing that I've never seen one CZ aficionado even acknowledge.

Sorry you're having trouble with your Dehaan. Is Mark no longer servicing them??
 
#35 ·
Mark's still servicing them but there's no part available. He's the one that did the bead weld on the side of the sear selector.

On the Turkish guns, Turkey is Turkey and it doesn't make any difference who imports them. There's about 4 factories over there that make guns imported to the USA. In my opinion the Huglu ones are the best of the bunch..... but that's only an opinion. How's the rest, Your Results May Vary.. YRMV.
 
#36 ·
On the Turkish guns, Turkey is Turkey and it doesn't make any difference who imports them.
That's not true, there are different qualities of craftsmanship available out of Turkey, and the nicer of the Turkish guns are being proofed elsewhere (usually Italy.)
 
#37 ·
Fit really is the most important factor.
It took me years and thousands to learn that Browning fits me and others don't.
I have been fortunate to find 3 Browning shotguns that were priced at around $.60/dollar on the used market and are now my favorite shotguns.
There is excellent value in lightly used shotguns.
Do your research, take advantage when someone offers you the chance to shoot their shotguns and know what you're looking for and deals come your way.
 
#42 · (Edited)
So, I spent Saturday with a couple of other guys on the forum at a fun day at HHR&G club. Shooting went just fine, the hitting was a disappointment. I wasn't the worst but way back for the high number for the day.

I currently have an old reliable 12 ga. 870 pump. The pump is tough on the skeet range. I did manage to hit the fence though on the right hand swing.

Considering an over & under. Not necessarily looking to go cheap but not looking for a pricey set up.

Suggestions / comments / recomendations?

MB
i shot trap many years with an 870 and did well. I did have the stock tweaked to fit me. As most know it is about fit when it comes to shotguns.

I like citories but they dont fit me well. I shoot berettas better and the 686 is a very good gun. Go to a range hang out and talk to the experienced shooters. They will often let you try their guns. I have found i like 30 inch barrels in o/u. I like sxs's too and have found one that fits me and it is my fav upland gun.

i have a cz upland lite and great beater gun to carry all day but i have had the springs replaced.

Pick a price range and start looking for a good condition used gun.

martyg and karl know their stuff
 
#43 ·
This thread is a little sideways on Microbrews original one for shotgun recommendations.
That's how all convos go, besides hunting season is over, it's to 'blah' outside to be excited about dog training or clay breaking. Might as well talk guns online.

To be fair, I also have a Turkish gun, a Wetherby SA-08 in 20 gauge as a knock around kid friendly gun (i have a teenage daughter that is sometimes keen to shoot) in the much hated synthetic stock by Mr. Wakeman. Overall, it's a tool that fits our need, and can easily be serviced by Wetherby unlike many of the other Turkish semi autos. My point in all this is that I like to research as much as possible, I assume there have to be a few others out there that are the same.

Have a good rest of your weekend.

-Terry
 
#45 ·
Here's the deal.... No one "needs" a double gun to shoot proficiently. Working with someone like AA Claybusters on instruction would see the subject realize a greater level of objective proficiency than any new gun (provided that the gun fits and barrels are properly regulated).

We "want" a double gun for far more intangible reasons: Its form suits our image of what upland hunting and clay shooting should be, they can handle far better than other executions, at their best (and we're into five and six figure guns here) they are works of art, and that $2K gun fees our sense of aspiration. Many, many guns in the $2K range are extremely serviceable and will last a lifetime. If I were after such a gun now I'd look at Dickson or the venerable Beretta 68X platform. I also like ownership at CG. Good people.

My advice is to shop used. My oldest piece is over 100 years old (pic below). Work with a reputable gun broker. Pick up Shooting Sportsman Magazine as a start. Gather info from well informed people.

There is a certain amount of nostalgia in an Ithaca Mod 37 and a Remington 870 for me. However all of my shotguns are doubles. I certainly don't shoot any better with them, but it adds to my enjoyment of a day in the field.

Insect Jewellery Parasite Metal Fashion accessory
 
#46 ·
Here's the deal.... No one "needs" a double gun to shoot proficiently.

My advice is to shop used. My oldest piece is over 100 years old (pic below). Work with a reputable gun broker. Pick up Shooting Sportsman Magazine as a start View attachment 136196
NO!!! Definitely don't do that!!! it'll result in a permanent facial tick and sweaty palms:eek::eek::eek: There's a place in Malaga, Vintage Doubles. Never go in there unless somebody else is holding your Wallet! Kirby Hoyt owns it, and he'll seduce you with a Holland and Holland Royal in 12bore, that takes more effort to think it up to your shoulder than it actually does to mount the gun..... at 10 grand....an evil place!! I've never been able to get out of there without a major hit to my savings!!!:D I'll see if I can convince Her Ladyship to go up to the Gun Room and shoot some photos of my baby from Kirby-132 year-old Belgian guild gun proofed for black powder. It's like an extension of my index finger. Nothing I point it at lives......so half of me says "HELL YES"!!!! Vintage double guns...and the other half says "NONONONONONO"! :eek: I'm cursed!
 
#47 ·
I am also pleased with CZ shotguns & have heard good things about CZ O/U shotties although mine are SxS configurations also in 28, 20, & 12
+1 on the CZ's. I have the Canvasback 12-26 and love it. If you're patient and shop around, you can find and older one with the really nice burl wood.
 
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#55 ·
In theory. You have to find the exact, right buyer. I will say this that fine doubles have, at least for now, retained their value. Which is more than can be said of vehicles, fly rods, skis, etc.

I'd never use fine doubles as a point of investment, but rather purchase them for what they are, and plan on recooping my initial purchase price when sold.
 
#52 ·
Just as an example of the type of money "vintage" doubles can fetch...about a decade a go, Puglisi Gun Emporium in Peoria IL acquired at auction, the Parker side by side that the Tsar's regimental officers had made for him just before the Russian revolution hit. For obvious reasons, Tsar Nickolas II never got the gun, but it sold for some $275,000 if I recall. I read that, and had to go change my underwear.........
 
#53 ·
Here's some shots of my little baby, the Belgian Guild gun; nothing fancy, but money very well spent. She's actually only proofed for black powder, but RST Shells manufactures low-pressure smokeless shotshells for vintage doubles. This has 2.5-inch chambers, and initially I hand-loaded all-brass black powder loads for her. So if I ever have the need to go to release areas that require non-tox shot, I can load black with some of the 7lbs of #6 Bismuth I have lying around.


and here's the link for RST shotshells
http://www.rstshells.com/
 
#54 ·
For what it's worth: was offered, didn't buy a Browning Superposed 12, 1960's vintage, at $700.00 The 28 inch bbls were cut back to 28, chokes pretty much gone, and the hinge was worn and loose enough to feel the fore end wiggle. Lever was to the right, but it needed work to put right.

If a guy wanted to put some money in it, it would be an OK field gun with hinge work and choke tubes installed.
 
#59 ·
i passed on a few AYA's over the years and kick myself that I did

Cabelas had these on sale for $300 off a few months ago. Should have picked a 20

http://www.cabelas.com/product/DKNS..._search=gun%2Blibrary&CQ_ref=~brand-Dickinson

Looking for a good used skb 280e now

I consider myself a penny-pinching economical bird hunter, yet I completely second this. Bird dog, vet, dog gear, dog food, gas, mileage, shotguns, crates, etc, it adds up.

Luckily WA has an 11 week pheasant season plus grouse season starts earlier and extends bird hunting opportunities, so it is worth it to me.

Regarding used gun O/U and SxS options, the aforementioned Ruger 20 ga. is a good O/U field gun. Other sub-$2k O/U 20 ga. models I've liked are the SKB and used Brownings.

For used SxS 20 ga. guns in the $800-$1400 price range, Smith and Wesson made a nice one a few years ago. And some of the lower grade AYA SxS guns from the 1970's are well balanced good handling 20 ga. field guns.

It is a shame that shotgun writer Bill Hanus passed away too soon. Besides being a wealth of knowledge & experience, his website always had good buys on double barrel guns for sale. I'm still kicking myself for not buying one of the AyA #2 SxS 20 ga. batch of guns he had on sale for $2600 ten years ago.

One last thought: besides fit, make sure you like the safety's feel, form and function. I had a wonderfully balanced, sweet shooting Beretta O/U 20 ga. Silver Pigeon that I ultimately sold because of the low profile safety. It's personal preference, but I want a safety I can feel thru thin leather shooting gloves when I'm hunting in 10 degree weather.
 
#60 ·
For upland bird hunting, I have a Ruger red label O/U 20 ga. and a 30-year-old SKB O/U that has interchangeable 20 ga., .410, and 28 ga. barrels.

I also have an inexpensive circa-1970's AyA SxS 20 ga. that I picked up for $700. According to the used gun books, I probably overpaid. It was made back during AyA's mass-production era. It's a plain-jane field grade gun with ordinary wood and no engraving other than the identifying barrel stamps. But it handles fairly nicely, is decently balanced, and is easy to carry and fun to hunt with.

I'd like to find a better SxS 20 ga. to add to my collection for bird hunting. Something that costs less than $3000 yet feels as good to swing as that Silver Pigeon did.

In the past (last time I tried one was a couple of years ago), I haven't liked the way the CZ SxS 20 ga. shotguns feel. When I picked em up and swung them in a sporting goods store, to me they felt fore-end heavy and unbalanced. I'll have to try their recent ones and see if they have fixed that.
 
#68 ·
I meant the social shooting and nice gun stockists don't exist up here the way they do in a few other parts of the country.

Although they have a cool 'try' program, we don't have anything within reasonable travel like a Dupont Krieghoff, Kevins Plantation, Cole Fine Guns, that sort of thing. We have heaps more access to land/birds in general though as far as I can tell out here though, so it's one of those cake and eat it too scenarios.
 
#69 ·
I totally agree Terry! especially fun get-togethers like the Vintagers events, and decent gun-fitters. We have to travel back to the East coast, it seems...or to England! The only one on the West coast which comes to mind is Dale Tate, in Ione. but Dale's guns aren't for the budget hunters-last I heard,they started at $13,000!
 
#71 ·
Two trips to London, always stop at Purdy and Sons and Holland and Holland. First trip, hit William Evans, Boss, Purdey and Holland and Holland. Great trip, salemennwere fun, they knew I couldn't afford a hat in their shops but they wanted me to see all of their guns. Great experience.
 
#70 ·
I would LOVE to pay someone to measure me properly for a shotgun. I've had guns that hit whatever I pointed at and ones that I couldn't hit anything to save my life. It would be great to have someone help me out so I would know exactly what I want to buy - and/or how to get the gun properly modified after I buy it.

I go east a lot (Boston,NYC, etc). I'm happy to get it done over that-a-way.

I'm living in Canada now so it might not make sense to buy something in the States and ship across - but then again for the right gun it might...
 
#72 ·
I would LOVE to pay someone to measure me properly for a shotgun. I've had guns that hit whatever I pointed at and ones that I couldn't hit anything to save my life. It would be great to have someone help me out so I would know exactly what I want to buy - and/or how to get the gun properly modified after I buy it.

I go east a lot (Boston,NYC, etc). I'm happy to get it done over that-a-way.

I'm living in Canada now so it might not make sense to buy something in the States and ship across - but then again for the right gun it might...
If you want to be fitted contact Maureen and Tony at AA Claybusters.
 
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