Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by bennysbuddy, Nov 11, 2010.
Let's just lower the hoop to 8' so everyone can dunk. We'll still call it basketball.
You know what I think is funny is how different it is from gear to fly guys. Since I'm simply an angler who fishes a fly or gear I could care less what anyone thinks. But you rarely hear a gear angler say "Um, those jigs look alot like a weighted fly, are you some sort of flyguy wanna be?" or "You should just take up flyfishing". You also never heard guys say "Man, those are bass plugs, why are you using them for steelhead?". Or "that's a bass worm, why are you using it for steelhead?". Now, so far to date, anything new that comes out is criticized in the fly community. I never understood that. By definition (now you can correct me if I'm wrong per state laws) but state definition of a "fly" would knock intruders out, and some styles of articulated flies (ones I've seen that didn't have the material wrapped on the trailing hook). Traditions are just that, traditions. NONE of us were there from the beginning of flyfishing in Washington State. Too many people are in love (or shall I say are romanced) by the notion of being "true to the sport". Well, it's a sport that's been bastardized for years. For some reason I'm thinking that synthetic materials for tying, breathable waders, vestpacks, mono and flourocarbon, sinktips and modern lines, speyrods, etc, etc, etc weren't part of the founding of flyfishing in the NW. But I'm sure some of those who are talking how beads and pink worms aren't "true to the sport" and searching for "traditional" gear to wear. Hell, you can still buy rubberpacks. I've seen old pics of Les Johnson and of the "dreamteam" of the S rivers wearing rubberpacks with SINGLEHANDED RODS in thier hands. I'm just so tired of people who have to label everything. People adapt, a sport adapts. Hell, gear guys open thier arms to new things. I never understood it in the flyworld. I'm not an old timer flyfishing, but I've been around. Guess my benefit was I wasn't schooled in flyfishing. BUT, my Uncle who loved to flyfish steelhead from the 40's until his death in the early 70's wasn't a traditional flyfisherman either. But he caught his share of steelhead.
I leave you with a pic of him circa the mid 50's. He doesn't sport a traditional look of a steelheader does he? Well, besides the fish in his hands (what he wore alot, he mostly wet waded with his shoes and pants, but would wear rubber packs too. His rod of choice near the end was his glass fenwick singlehanded flyrod).
And yes, he did fish gear occasionally, but he was a professed fly angler the majority of the time.
BTW, I wouldn't use pink worms on a flyrod. I'd only use them on driftgear. Easier to present, and easier to work IMHO. Why make it tougher on myself.
Same could be said for nymphing on a fly rod. A float or centerpin rod would present the flies much easier, more effective, less mending, and provide longer drifts...but then the angler couldn't call him/herself a "Fly Fisher". :rofl:
We're talking about pink worms here. I never did respond to that thread. But yeah, I'd say concur on the float rod and a jig/nymph whatever you'd want to call it (a gear guy wouldn't call it a nymph).
Well said Jerry,
I wasn't going to comment but I find it humorous a guy that fishes beads feels more "perfect" than someone fishing a float and jig. A guy that fishes a float and nymph is more pure than a guy fishing
a spoon. And the guy swinging a wet fly is looked down on a guy fishing a skater.
It is fishing! It is as simple as that. If it is legal everyone has the right to fish the way they preffer.
I fished gear for many many years for steelhead using gear, corkies, spinners, spoons, Okie drifters and the such. It wasn't until just a few years ago that I decided to fish steelhead with the fly. In some ways a fly is far more difficult but not a "purer" way to fish. Learning to properly drift gear is also quite a challenge and spoons are as difficult as a fly to master.
Certain situations scream at what to use. A good fisherman recognizes that and adjusts accordingly. You can stick with a fly presentation, as I do now, and adjust your approach accordingly. But there is nothing wrong or unethical if a person opts for a different approach to solving the problem. That is fishing!
The fisher that reads the situation and adusts accordingly, rather than the fisher that fishes with blinders, is quite often the most succesful.
If you believe the only ethical fly fishing is for example fishing with a dry fly then have fun! But don't tell me how to fish and what YOU percieve as being ethical! Your ethics are exactly that, YOUR ethics. they do not apply to me nor anyone else.
I don't care how you fish as long as it is legal and I sure as hell don't like you telling me how to fish according to your preceptions and beliefs!
I can recall many years ago when I felt fly fishing was the holly grail! I quess I have matured and realized that fishing is just exactly that, FISHING. It isn't the method nor the numbers nor the biggest, it is fishing. An opportunity to get away from the daily grind and hub bub of daily life. A time to get away and sort out ones own existence or relieve stress or simply to regress to the basics or what ever the reason you fish. There are some that fish for food and that I understand but most fish for escape and that I TOTALLY understand as that is why most of us fish! Fishing is a purity in itself. Some do it in different ways but most do it for the same reason. I have NEVER met a fisherman that didn't reflect on what was around him. In some respects I think we are all troubled people trying to figure out how to make things better.
Jerry the difference is that some fly anglers are so desperate to be called fly fishers yet want to fish the most effective way which can only occasionally be done with a fly rod.. I am an angler I like all forms of skilled angling.
I fly fish for steelhead sometimes
I drift fish with bait a little for steelhead
I spoon fish for steelhead a lot
I bobber and egg fish for coho ( like i did today)
I LOVE throwing spinners for coho ( like i did today) and killed two fish doing it ( yum)
there is nothing wrong with any legal form of fishing it's just not all fly fishing
One thing that I really experience is catching a fall chinook on a back trolled qwick fish i just wanna see the rod get buried!!!
why did i sell my driftboat again??? Ohh thats right so i could buy a bass boat and fish tournaments throwing crankbaits with 2 treble hooks and jigs that weigh more than an ounce..
Am i a purist?? NO absolutely not however i do believe that fly fishing is fly fishing and gear fishing is gear fishing and i think mixing the two is silly
Fishing is fishing. I use a gill net in the salt. No pink worms or bacon needed.
wait wait wait.... how do you tie a bacon fly?
Just one question though. Would you consider any tubes flyfishing?
It may not seem like it in threads like this, but I'm about as open minded and non-judgemental a person as you're likely to meet. I don't give a shit how you fish. But read PT's post. I'm kind of a stickler for use of language and semantics. Use eggs, beads, nymphs, etc., but when you lower the basket to 8 feet, or even less than 6 feet, go ahead and delude yourself all you want. Just don't try and tell me you're still playing basketball.
The reason fly fishermen don't fish for trout with powerbait is because fishing means defining their sport within parameters that challenge the angler and limit the overall odds of success. It's an avocation where the chase, the method, the process are all more important than the result of caught trout. When it's about modifying the method for the simple purpose of increasing the body count, then those modifications are no better, nor worse, than using "whatever works," be it powerbait, beads, nymphing under a bobber, gillnets, or dynamite. The easy way is still sporting, as sporting as gillnets and dynamite can be, but the easy way is never, and will never, be as sporting as that method that is more difficult and more challenging.
Ask the guys who nymph for steelhead why they do it. Invariably it's about getting results, getting the body count, because it's "whatever works." It's never about it being more challenging and more difficult. Why would you ever expect the same degree of respect for taking the easy way out?
You don't get it because you're bi. But apparently you have limits and draw a line. You just draw it at bait, and choose to forego gillnets and dynamite. Why? Aside from legality, I expect it's because you view nets and explosives as less sporting. BTW, gillnetting and explosives can also be sporting, in their own unique ways.
And BTW, a lot of gear guys have their own prejudices for and about various methods of bait and gear fishing, along with a general disdain of fly fishing. In many ways it's funnier than the degrees of discrimination within fly fishing.
i made a video about fishing beads
Salmo_g, I get it and don't mind your delivery one bit. I do not have the foundation of decades of ingrained techniques or experiences on which to build. I'm not lowering the basket from 10' at all, just making sure that I consider if all shots from all places on the court have potential. I won't fish some rubber worm bait when I can fish a nice moal, I do have some limits...some.
Couldn't find the bacon fly but here is the eggs n bacon fly. Looks like it would work to me.
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Sorry I posted up something that is actually about fly fishing. Carry on.
Sg, I dig reading what you post. Up until this point, I've stayed out of this debate (save for a few snarky comments). I felt that I had nothing substantial to add, because of my total lack of experience. But I think I may have something of substance to add because of that. I'm not arguing the points you and others have made, I'm just trying to offer a different perspective. I'm going to go with the basketball analogy.
When you came up fishing, there were basketball courts everywhere. Everyone played, and you could always find a game. If you worked hard, and put your time in, you'd learn the game. Some people would play "street ball", but it was a dirty sportsmanship. Most didn't. Most just played well with each other. If you didn't like the game at one court, you could find a game at a different one. Most couldn't imagine lowering the hoop, or playing street ball. And why on earth would you? There was always a game to get into, and all you had to do was practice hard, and your game would get better.
Now the courts are being closed, and often, you can't even find a ball.