Please help me leave the gear rod at home

E

Evan Virnoche

Guest
#16
You must remember that squidros, hevi beads and dick nites must be avoided if u truly fly fishing other wise u will just be catching on a fly rod

Sent from my VS840 4G using Tapatalk 2
 
#17
During the summer, I fish a lot of the type of water that you described in a manner similar to how you like to fish. Anyhow, I use an Echo 5 weight switch rod with a 24’ long, 350 grain Ambush triangle taper shooting head. (I should probably mention that I would not use this set up if I was expecting to encounter fish that weighted in the mid – high teens.) As Derek mentioned, a long leader and a lightly weighted fly can be pretty effective, and I find myself using that a lot of the time. (As a side note, I also use traditional flies.) One of the main reasons why I prefer this method is because I find myself focusing more on line control and where the fish are holding, rather than worrying about my sink tip, etc. For pocket water, I like the 10’ long M.O.W. tip with a 5 foot long section of T-8. If I need to get a little bit deeper, then switch to a M.O.W. tip with a 7.5 foot section of T-8. But as others have mentioned, you are not going to build up your confidence until you leave the gear rod at home. I hope that this helps.

Regards,

Andrew
 

Jerry Daschofsky

Moderator
Staff member
#19
Sorry if this comes off a little "preach-y" but the decision to leave (or quit completely) the gear stuff home isn't about you entirely...even though it is yours alone and no one can make that decision for you..

Yes, if you decide to challenge yourself and if you are thoughtful and "aware" enough that the cast itself becomes pleasurable and part of what you seek for a day on the river, fly fishing can be enormously satisfying and gratifying...and fun.

But the choice to fish the fly exclusively is about more than self-gratification or catching fish, it is about giving the fish a sporting chance..."sport" being the operative word there. And embodied within that ethic of "sportsmanship" is a measure of deliberate, mindful behaviour.

Choosing to fish the fly is choosing to challenge yourself...to live a conscious life in harmony with nature rather than one that is wholly exploitative.

It is a choice that transcends our own immediate and often selfish, self-indulgent desires--placing other concerns and other lives ahead of our own. Both in origin and in effect.

But it is your choice...if it doesn't come from you, from within, it cannot be borrowed.
Sorry, how much did you gear fish for steelhead? Sporting chance? Everyone gives gear this "you're catching tons of fish" label. Guess what? a 10%er is a 10%er. It's not the method they're using, it's just them being on the water. There are plenty of gear guys who've never caught a steelhead. In the end, a "sporting chance" isn't given always by fly vs. gear. Even Salmo G would have to admit that just because you're using "bait" doesn't mean certified gold either. Guys who can't cure, or use a bad cure, can have zero luck (saw that first hand as a youngin growing up fishing bait for steelhead). And yes, you'll have less luck with a flyrod......or will you? Again, I know some 10%ers who catch as many fish with a one or two handed fly rod as they do with their gear rods. And they catch as many fish with bait as they do with hardware as they do with jigs. For fishing to be "satisfying" it means you put your soul into it while you do it. The key is are you out there to put a fish on the bank or out there to enjoy the experience and the fish is the biproduct? I know too many gear anglers who barely catch fish, but truly ENJOY the experience. They're just as sportsmanship minded as any fly angler.
 

Jerry Daschofsky

Moderator
Staff member
#20
By the way. Who cares if you bring a gear rod. Do you enjoy using it? Who's been giving you grief about using one? Only thing unethical about using one is using it illegally (snagging, flossing, etc). Just leave it in the boat. I'm just as happy swinging a spoon as I am swinging a fly for steelhead. I ALWAYS bring both with me. Only did it once (not bring gear rod). Worst trip. Why? Not because I didn't catch a fish (I didn't). It's because I didn't even GIVE myself a chance to get one. Water was running so hard and heavy was hard to get the heaviest flies with heaviest weighted flies down, let alone if I had mono with a heavy spoon. I enjoy being out there. But at same time, it's nice to know there IS a chance. But I'm never disappointed if I'm skunked for the day.
 
#21
I don't care whether you fish gear or not...bottom line I wasn't singling out gear fishermen I was speaking to the OP--who asked how he could leave the gear behind, in case you missed that part..

But since I seem to have struck a nerve, I will say this, I've been fishing for steelhead in Oregon for a lot of years. When I say "sporting" it isn't something to do with what kind of hat you wear or even how many fish you take home, when you go home. It's about how you leave the river when you do go home.

Did you leave 100 feet of monofilament dangling in the current or strung from one submerged rock to the next? Did you leave several ounces of lead in the river? Or how about those beer cans that were so heavy to pack in but so much more heavy when emptied that you couldn't possibly find the strengthto pack them out. What about the car seat you set out on the bank so that you wouldn't have to stand up too long.

How many people did you low hole because you don't need, or believe in moving through? How long did you dog-in-the-manger that slot down in Ferry canyon at one in the afternoon just because there was a car parked up on the road?

No, not every gear fisherman does this.And more and more flyfishermen are equally unthinking. But I've been dangerously tangled in mono too many times to want to remember. I've seen the car seats and the beer cans--just last week on one of the prettiest rivers in the state.

But it wasn't the prettiest river in the state because that river is the North Umpqua and at least the pretty part is fly fishing only. And I've never in over 30 years (I've been flyfishing for over 50) seen any of that on the NU.

The biggest problem with gear fishermen is that they are out for themselves (and again, when flyfishermen equally so misapprehend the reason to fish they are no better). Once they get done fishing no one else can experience the river the way they did without thinking about Dogpatch.

When you leave the river worse than you found it...even accidentally...but especially if you never really give it a second thought, "sporting" doesn't even come into it. It's a malaprop.

Just my 2 cents...
 

David Dalan

69°19'15.35" N 18°44'22.74" E
#22
Sorry if this comes off a little "preach-y" but the decision to leave (or quit completely) the gear stuff home isn't about you entirely...even though it is yours alone and no one can make that decision for you..

Yes, if you decide to challenge yourself and if you are thoughtful and "aware" enough that the cast itself becomes pleasurable and part of what you seek for a day on the river, fly fishing can be enormously satisfying and gratifying...and fun.

But the choice to fish the fly exclusively is about more than self-gratification or catching fish, it is about giving the fish a sporting chance..."sport" being the operative word there. And embodied within that ethic of "sportsmanship" is a measure of deliberate, mindful behaviour.

Choosing to fish the fly is choosing to challenge yourself...to live a conscious life in harmony with nature rather than one that is wholly exploitative.

It is a choice that transcends our own immediate and often selfish, self-indulgent desires--placing other concerns and other lives ahead of our own. Both in origin and in effect.

But it is your choice...if it doesn't come from you, from within, it cannot be borrowed.
All things being equal, I have to say that the level of sporting chance seems inversely tied to fish abundance. Example: rivers exist where one could watch fishermen bring double digit steelhead to hand on a fly rod, float and split shot free, in a single day.

If I am interpreting it correctly, the quoted prose seems to imply fly fishing is a method that is inherently less effective at actually catching fish. I agree that there are additional elements of interest beyond catching (casting, fly tying, etc.), but those are not required to make the sport "sporting."

I'll engage my soapbox for a moment.

Many of the more "tweedy" (I do not use this as an insult, only a descriptor) anglers seem to be under the impression that fly fishing comes from a long heritage of not catching much. They would not say this directly, but a hint of "expected defeat" accompanies the description(s) they provide for their chosen sport. Astonishing numbers and sizes of trout (Browns and Sea Trout) and Atlantic Salmon were noted in early angler fishing records, at the dawn of modern fly fishing. To be sure the most aristocratic crowd practicing fly fishing did often wax poetic about the ancillary elements of fly fishing. But they were doing so while catching large numbers of fish. And killing/eating them.

I would offer that the modern, low expectations of fly fishing has more to do with the large increase in participants and relatively low abundance of quarry. When new anglers are mixed with anadromous fishes and nothing else is add...pretty much nothing happens most of the time.

Off my soapbox. I did not intent to offend, and sorry for the hijack.

BUT, in then end, Jerry hit the nail on the head. It's your leisure time, and you should feel enabled to with it what you will. The only meaningful judge of your angling worthiness, lives in your head.
 

David Dalan

69°19'15.35" N 18°44'22.74" E
#23
Mac,

I see where you were getting at now. Feel free to ignore my last reply, I think I was arguing a view you were not expressing.

FWIW, I think there are a hell of a lot of very considerate gear anglers out there. Particularly in terms of cleaning up their trash, being polite and helpful, etc.
 
#24
Mac,

I see where you were getting at now. Feel free to ignore my last reply, I think I was arguing a view you were not expressing.

FWIW, I think there are a hell of a lot of very considerate gear anglers out there. Particularly in terms of cleaning up their trash, being polite and helpful, etc.
I agree with you. The real problem is that we don't see them.

And think about it--that's the way it should be.

They left the river in at least as good a shape as they found it. They left the river such that others could get as much enjoyment out of it as they did. That's precisely why the NU is the prettiest river in Oregon.

Think too about common perceptions--flyfishermen are thought of as not catching as many fish as those using other methods. Often this is ascribed to some form of elitism or haughty self-righteous indifference...and there is some of that. But the real issue is that for most of us it is a choice we make to be gentle to those thing we love--the river and the fish.

And gear or bait fishermen...how are they perceived? In general. Esp. when a fisherman gets tangled in that mono. Or walks down a steep and tangled trail to a seemingly secluded run and finds a car seat on the bank. You have to know it took a hell of a lot of effort to haul that sucker in there. To what purpose? What's the motive? It ain't concern for the fish or the environment or any sense of harmony with either the river...much less the better angels of our natures. Give me one reason/motive that isn't fundamentally selfish and thoughtless.
 

Jerry Daschofsky

Moderator
Staff member
#25
I don't care whether you fish gear or not...bottom line I wasn't singling out gear fishermen I was speaking to the OP--who asked how he could leave the gear behind, in case you missed that part..

But since I seem to have struck a nerve, I will say this, I've been fishing for steelhead in Oregon for a lot of years. When I say "sporting" it isn't something to do with what kind of hat you wear or even how many fish you take home, when you go home. It's about how you leave the river when you do go home.

Did you leave 100 feet of monofilament dangling in the current or strung from one submerged rock to the next? Did you leave several ounces of lead in the river? Or how about those beer cans that were so heavy to pack in but so much more heavy when emptied that you couldn't possibly find the strengthto pack them out. What about the car seat you set out on the bank so that you wouldn't have to stand up too long.

How many people did you low hole because you don't need, or believe in moving through? How long did you dog-in-the-manger that slot down in Ferry canyon at one in the afternoon just because there was a car parked up on the road?

No, not every gear fisherman does this.And more and more flyfishermen are equally unthinking. But I've been dangerously tangled in mono too many times to want to remember. I've seen the car seats and the beer cans--just last week on one of the prettiest rivers in the state.

But it wasn't the prettiest river in the state because that river is the North Umpqua and at least the pretty part is fly fishing only. And I've never in over 30 years (I've been flyfishing for over 50) seen any of that on the NU.

The biggest problem with gear fishermen is that they are out for themselves (and again, when flyfishermen equally so misapprehend the reason to fish they are no better). Once they get done fishing no one else can experience the river the way they did without thinking about Dogpatch.

When you leave the river worse than you found it...even accidentally...but especially if you never really give it a second thought, "sporting" doesn't even come into it. It's a malaprop.

Just my 2 cents...
LOL. God you had me laughing. Was that supposed to be serious? God I hope not.
 

Jerry Daschofsky

Moderator
Staff member
#26
I agree with you. The real problem is that we don't see them. And think about it--that's the way it should be.

They left the river in at least as good a shape as they found it. They left the river such that others could get as much enjoyment out of it as they did. That's precisely why the NU is the prettiest river in Oregon.
Try fishing some other rivers then the NU and you may. I know TONS of them. And a LOT of us who fish gear (and I fish fly just about equally) take out MORE then we brought with us. If you sequester yourself to fly only, how do you expect to see an awesome gear angler? You won't. Just sayin'
 

Jerry Daschofsky

Moderator
Staff member
#28
I'm sorry if some of these questions have been covered in depth, but I couldn't find the info I'm looking for and I think I need a little direction from someone who's been in the same boat that I am. I'll start off by saying that for the last several years, I've fished for steelhead using gear and trout with fly. Mostly - at least most of the steelhead I've caught have been on gear. I'm looking to possibly change this and need some advice. I bought an 8 weight single hander and 8 weight spey rod a few years ago, hoping that I would transition these rods into my game full-time and phase the baitcaster out (not completely - but a bit more). That hasn't happened.

I thought I would take to spey-casting and spend my days on the gravel bars of larger rivers. While I'm able to execute a sufficient spey cast, I just don't like the larger river, long line style of fishing. I enjoy the casting, but I don't like methodically working my way through large runs. I'm restless and like to bush-whack and explore. I've found over the last few years that I tend to enjoy fishing smaller rivers more. The rivers I fish are usually in the 300-800 cfs range. I've found I enjoy fishing the pocket water, smaller seams, and structure - calling my shots, essentially. These rivers can be small, bouldery, quick and have complex flows - not good spey water. My single handed 8 weight has definitely been a better tool for these rivers, but I find that the casting range, especially with tight, brushy banks and overhanging trees, is very limiting and after 10 hours of fishing, my arm is pretty tired. The result of this is that I tend to leave my fly rod at home and just use the baitcaster and fish a float and jig, since I'm confident in the versatility and effectiveness. When I do use my one-hander, I like to fish quickly, and will swing, nymph, or high stick without changing lines/rods. I like fishing with my baitcaster, but I enjoy casting a fly rod much more, and would like to get to the point where I can fish these rivers with only a slight loss of effectiveness vs. a float and jig. I just don't think that can be accomplished with a single hander.

My questions then are:
1. Does anyone else prefer to fish in this way, and what do they prefer to use?
2. Would a switch rod be an effective tool? Would it alleviate some of my frustrations?
3. Would a switch rod provide enough line management to be able to swing, high stick, and nymph without changing lines?
4. A lot of the rivers, though small, can have big fish in the upper teens; would an 8 weight switch be too cumbersome to fish under the above conditions? I understand 6 or 7 weights are more common.
5. Can anyone recommend a rod/setup?
Back on topic. If you can find one, since it sounds like small rivers, get yourself a 7 or 8 wt 10' rod. But a heavy long enough belly line to roll cast and do one handed spey casts. Basically roll casting. I have both a 7 AND an 8wt in 10' (both RPL's) that I use for this. You can get best of both worlds. Now, will you get the effect of a skagit? No. But will work great. Been tempted to find the proper grain window and have a custom line cut for the rod. Try skagit casting my 10'ers. You don't need the switch, but they're not much longer anyways.

The deer creek series has some nice rods for what you're looking for.
 
#29
LOL. God you had me laughing. Was that supposed to be serious? God I hope not.
How's this for serious...

I fish because I love to; because I love the environs where trout are found, which are invariably beautiful, and hate the environs where crowds of people are found, which are invariably ugly; because all of the television commercials, cocktail parties, and assorted social posturing I thus escape; because, in a world where most men seem to spend their lives doing things they hate, my fishing is at once an endless source of delight and an act of small rebellion; because trout do not lie or cheat and cannot be bought or bribed or impressed by power, but respond only to quietude and humility and endless patience; because I suspect that men are going along this way for the last time, and I for one don't want to waste the trip; because mercifully there are no telephones on trout waters; because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there; because one day maybe I will catch a mermaid; and, finally, not because I regard fishing as being so terribly important but because I suspect that so many of the other concerns of men are equally unimportant- and not nearly so much fun. Robert Travers

Currently I only fish the Desshutes, the North Santiam, the Rogue, the NU, the Sandy...and any other river that has steelhead and a quiet run not packed shoulder to shoulder by folks flinging $9.00 a pound food grade prawns.

I edit the river ruthlessly and still see this kind of thing. If you don't it's because you've got "flies in your eyes."
 

Jerry Daschofsky

Moderator
Staff member
#30
How's this for serious...

I fish because I love to; because I love the environs where trout are found, which are invariably beautiful, and hate the environs where crowds of people are found, which are invariably ugly; because all of the television commercials, cocktail parties, and assorted social posturing I thus escape; because, in a world where most men seem to spend their lives doing things they hate, my fishing is at once an endless source of delight and an act of small rebellion; because trout do not lie or cheat and cannot be bought or bribed or impressed by power, but respond only to quietude and humility and endless patience; because I suspect that men are going along this way for the last time, and I for one don't want to waste the trip; because mercifully there are no telephones on trout waters; because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there; because one day maybe I will catch a mermaid; and, finally, not because I regard fishing as being so terribly important but because I suspect that so many of the other concerns of men are equally unimportant- and not nearly so much fun. Robert Travers

Currently I only fish the Desshutes, the North Santiam, the Rogue, the NU, the Sandy...and any other river that has steelhead and a quiet run not packed shoulder to shoulder by folks flinging $9.00 a pound food grade prawns.

I edit the river ruthlessly and still see this kind of thing. If you don't it's because you've got "flies in your eyes."
Again, you got me laughing again. Your ignorance makes me laugh.