Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Ringlee, May 3, 2009.
They work............as a techy line geek says to me many a time...Swrow Down!!!!
I don't think anybody NEEDS skagit and skando heads for the same rod. But it sure is fun to have both. I prefer poly or mono leaders on my skando heads, Density Compensated/tapered or one of the Ts like T14 for my skagits.
When I fish a floating tip on a skagit head I usually rig a lighter skagit head than I might when fishing tips, use a 15' floating tip with 10-12' of mono, and cast skando style with it...I call this skandit casting. It's gas for summertime, and you can fish close in and farther away with it too...but mend while the line's in the air if you can.
good times. c'mon, summer!
I think compact skagit 25' plus polyleader floating 14' cast just like Scandi head 35'. I have both heads and two polyleaders (intermedia/floating) from Poppy. and his suggestion is right. The shorter compact skagit head just provide other opportunities to loop dry leader or wet tips. The extended dry polyleader really stabilized the T&G cast. Of course you can cut the scandi head back to make it like skagit head.
I have had difficultly with floating poly leaders as far as their ability to stay afloat. Anyone else? I am not certain that they recommend treating them with anything.
Im really into this thread. I was thinking about going Scandi for the summer, all my two hander experience is with a Skagit setup. I want something light to skate drys and small wet flys this summer. Do you find that the diameter of the Skagit head makes for a less delicate presentation? Mending line in close quarters seems to make alot of water disturbance? How much would a Scandi Line Improve presentation?
Well it is complicated. If you were to want a versatile setup for summers I think a Skagit with Poly would be what you want. This is because you can dredge with T14 and huge leeches, which kills sometimes in the summer, or use the floating Poly and skate dries.
But.........a Skagit line splashes a lot. In some conditions even when it lands 15' from the tip of a poly leader that is still too close. Especially for high pressure areas in low water. The fish have to be unaware of you in every way.
So, if you want the best presentation, my experience has pretty much been narrowed down to the Elixer line. I pimp this line a lot, like no other really. I have never cast a line with such a long and amazingly smooth taper like that. It simply lands like NOTHING.
Even if I use WAAAAY too big of a fly for this line, like a MOAL, and really pop my cast so it unrolls properly, the fly splashes and the Elixer will melt into the water. It is just delicate as all hell and I really love it for this.
Big draw back to the Elixer though is a good breeze. Works better on medium to small rivers. I was wasting a lot of energy and deduced it was not worth it trying to use it on a breezy day on the Skagit.
If I were you I would get both. That is what I did.
How do you pimp it out?? Do you cut it back? I have the line but can't quite load it like I think it needs to be loaded using a poly leader. I am just wondering if I should cut it and use regular sink tips. I remember reading that this is an effective way to change the line. What do you think?
Try to use your bottom hand more Doc, and see if it works better. That is the ticket for scandi styles for me.
I think Jason is just saying he recommends the line to a lot of people.
You can throw a heavy fly with a scandi set up. I have found if you aerialize the entire line and leader and only have the fly dragging across the surface of the water once your D loop is formed it goes a long ways and looks smooth. The light end of the tip doesn't have the power like a skagit for ripping the fly/tip out of the water.
Poly leader Alternative
My local shop does not carry any poly leaders. They make and sell furled leaders. Not cheap but last a long time. Nice to cast with great turnover. It is like having a built in shock absorber in your leader. Just another option to consider.
Jeremy is right. When I say pimp it out, I mean highly recommend it for what it does. If I were going to swing soft hackles in low summertime conditions, I would rather have the Elixir than anything I have personally used which isn't every option out there BTW.
If I were going to be hiking a river all day and may need to dredge some runs, as well as fish some soft hackles, I would use a Skagit with a floating poly.
I wouldn't use a floating poly leader with the Elixir. Just get the right grain one to use with a normal tapered leader. I have a Beulah Switch 7/8 so I just got the one made for the rod. It handles a sinking poly and light tips fine but it is incredible effortless with a tapered leader to a soft hackle; very easy to over power.
This thread is confusing me because their are so many different opinions. I guess anybody can make whatever setup work, but if someone is trying to optimize their setup, here is what I would do:
Skagit heads use the appropriate tips ranging from 100-200 grains, floater included. A floating poly is too light.
Scandi heads use leaders, Rio versi leaders, Airflow poly leaders, or mono leaders. Tips are too heavy.
An Elixer is a scandi head, and is designed to use a leader. An 15' Airflow floating poly is 40 grains. A straight 15' mono salmon leader is 25 grains. Why would you use sinking poly's, light tips, and straight mono, but not a floating poly? To me, the floating poly on that line and rod is bread and butter.
those are good observations willj
I differ slightly- I prefer about a 12' mono leader when fishing my elixir, and 7-10' intermediate or poly sinkers. Boy, do I ever like that taper!
I will try the bottom hand more - thanks for the tip.
As far as the pimp thing - I get it now!!!
Now - to the real issue - how do you anchor the D Loop if the entire line is aerialized? I am having trouble visualizing how that would look. I have noticed that it won't rip line out of the water as you have stated - the whole cast just seems to go to shit in a hurry!
thanks in advance-
After lining up your anchor and at the end stage of forming a D loop for whichever cast you are most comfy with fly should be coming towards you dragging across the water behind the leader, or a poly leader and leader. As you start your forward motion and the line rolls over the top of the fly, everything except for the fly and a few inches of leader are completely out of the water until the snap happens (10 oclock stop). This uses a much bigger D loop for me than with a light fly.
I also keep 3-5 feet of the head inside the rod tip if I have on the heavy polyleader or it overloads my rod (Echo 7wt Scandi) and causes the tip to collapse when I power into it. For me this helps to manage a combination of very rapidly sinking leader and low mass at the end of the line.
With a light fly I keep several feet of the head on the water (plus polyleader/leader or just leader)until I snap the rod at the stop of my forward movement (10 oclock stop again). If I dont the lightly weighted fly (anchor) will pull. Then bad things happen.
I feel like I aim a bit higher with the heavy fly vs a light one. Like about 10-12 feet in the air above where I am casting. Feels like the D loop holds its energy better this way for long casts. Also the distance the anchor is away from me when it changes direction decreases with the weight of the fly with a Scandi far more than a Skagit.
Hope this helps as it is damn hard to describe to another person exactly what these things are doing without standing in the water next to you to actually show you.
If you are still working on this the next time I head over the to Puget Sound area I would love to help you out.
Yeah - It is difficult to visualize but probably easy to understand in person. Well - if you are back up in Arlington - let me know - would love to meet you!