Poly leaders- Explanation please

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Bob Jones, Dec 13, 2009.

  1. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    Hell, I'm confused as hell too. I've got polys. I've got tips. I also wonder about another quandry for me. T-14 in different lengths will alter your casting stroke a bit, right? Why not the same length of varied weights? 10' of three or four densities? T-8, T-11, T-14, T-17? Same length, same casting motion? Wouldn't that be better for a learning hack like me?
     
  2. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    Keep it simple, find out how much max T-14 you effectively cast and make a two or three smaller ones in -2' increments...I like 10', 8' and a 6'. I don't find much use for 12' so I don't carry it. I mostly use the 8'. As far as Casting Stroke, yeah it changes but no different then changing up your stroke from a 30' cast to a 80', so if you can mentally shift gears for distance you should be able to figure it out.

    James.
     
  3. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks James.
     
  4. DocDoc

    DocDoc Member

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    Mumbles - Ed Ward uses T14 of different lengths matched with #12 floating, so all the tips are the same length and cast very much the same. Let's say 10' of T14 for the fastest sink. The next would be 8' of T14 attached to 2' of #12, the third 6' of T14 attached to 4' of #12 and so forth. The #12 floater weighs approximately 14 grains per foot so all the tips cast the same. You can get fancy and use intermediate #12 to make tips the same way. These would sink a little faster than the ones with the floating section.
     
  5. _WW_

    _WW_ Fishes with Wolves

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    I'm sure everyone knows where there is some shallow and slow water that just seems to hold fish for whatever reason. A place where a conventional tip gets you hung up. These things will also work on the smaller waters you might fish, not to mention summer time applications and I've had good success with "swinging too fast up through the water column", think Leisenring (sic) Lift.
     
  6. floatinghat

    floatinghat Member

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    Also note that with a smaller less resistant fly the issue will not be the same. A lot of this comes back to one of the most basic things in flyfishing. Use equipment that can turn over your fly. Use a smaller, somewhat sparse, non/lightly weighted fly and they work great. A moving (escaping) fly isn't always a bad thing.
     
  7. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

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    First my apoligies for forgetting to 'follow/follow up' with this thread.

    90+++% of the Rogue is excellent 2-hander water; just a question of 'how long' a rod you really need to be using. Save for the lower section above Gold Beach, a 12.5-14 foot rod is all you'll need to cover almost any section of the river you're standing in front of (and LOTS of 'Public Access!) so 'over-gunning' it is a waste of time/energy (Personal experience here only). As to floating poly leaders, the answer is yes, but not for winter fish. Just the 'style' of the fish we have, most tend to be 'bottom huggers' so running a floater/skater (save for late Fall) is a bit of a waste of time .. save "for the hunt."

    Poly leaders WILL limit the size of the fly you can use (flies the size of a 'dead bird' DO need a regular sink tip for 'turn over'), but more often that not, a huge fly (down here) is really not necessary. All that said, with a full tip OR a sinking Poly, I tend to use a 'Fred's Cheap Cheater' between the end of the floating head and the sinking bit. Depending upon the line/rod weight I'll use a 2-3 foot section of 25-30 pound Maxima MAIN LINE (Leader is too soft!!) between the floating bit and the sinking bit. This allows the 'head' to fall away (darned quick I might add) from the 'floater,' that wants to float/hold the sinking bit up. Counter Productive to say the least. You'll get down faster and stay down longer ... that said, 'hyidrolics' (sp?)will eventually take over and pull the whole thing up towards the surface. But, you will get down faster/stay there longer ... which is the whole point of a sink tip?

    Hope that adds something.
    fae

    If the 'cheater' tends to hinge when you cast (SLOW THE CAST DOWN!!!) just shorten the thing up until you hit the 'sweet spot.'
     
  8. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

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    Good question Mr M., good question. What folks really don't know is that 'sinking anything,' save for lead core (you have a treat if you've never used them for 'heads') really DON'T sink that far, regardless of 'weight.' Bob (Robert) Pauli and a few others did a heck of a 'under water' study of how well do 'sink tips' actually work (water speed/flow was a major factor) but the actual sink rate/penetration was FAR LESS than the package would suggest. This was further backed up at one of the Sandy River Spey 'Claves where one of the Presenters (Scott McDonald?) made a similar point. Regardless of the 'weight' of the head, you'd be darned lucky to get much below 3 feet unless the flow was really pretty slow (walking speed or less). An 'eye opener' for me to say the least.

    During the winter, I'll use a sinking tip (of one kind or another) AND a weighted fly. Why a weighted fly? Because 'water flow' moving against a bit of leader will tend to force the fly up into the water column; a weighted fly will (tend) to drop it below the end of the 'tip.' Just my .02 cents of observations.
    fae

    Edit: "Also note that with a smaller less resistant fly the issue will not be the same. A lot of this comes back to one of the most basic things in flyfishing. Use equipment that can turn over your fly. Use a smaller, somewhat sparse, non/lightly weighted fly and they work great. A moving (escaping) fly isn't always a bad thing."

    Excellent point!
    Fred
     
  9. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks DocDoc.
    FAE, thanks to you too, but I was really hoping to move away from heavy barbell eyes that are just a bitch to cast. I'd rather cast a sink tip and lesser body weighted fly.
     
  10. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    Fred, I like the idea of having the mono section between the head and the tip. I'll have to give that a try.
     
  11. HauntedByWaters

    HauntedByWaters Active Member

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    Choose your tip mostly to either turn over your fly, or to add mass to you presentation allowing you to suspend more running line off the water and fish further away or slow the swing in faster water. T14 is great for "anchoring" your presentation out there and keeping it down in faster flows.

    Depth and delivery is all line control and reading water.
     
  12. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    not if you have the wrong sink tip, which is the whole point of this thread.
     
  13. Bob Jones

    Bob Jones Still truckless now farther away

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    Back before this current stuff was around, I'm trying to remember. We used to fish for chum in Oregon on small rivers mostly. What this all reminds me of is that we used a floating running line and cut a piece of Plion to splice in about the depth of the river. To this we spliced a few feet of Quick Decent which at that time came in 25 ft lengths. That was evidently like using the newer t-14. The Plion hinged down the depth of it's length and the QD was various wts that we used based on water speed. I'm not sure my memory is intirely correct, I know that the Plion was clear and the QD was black for the heaviest then brown and up the scale by IPS. I have to think that this is when we had to make all of our own shooting heads. Anybody here remember this. thanks Bob
     
  14. HauntedByWaters

    HauntedByWaters Active Member

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    Bad choice of words with "delivery". I guess I meant something like "drift".
     
  15. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

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    With a 'cheater' of some sort; highly likely due to the far smaller cross section.
    fae