Post OS brainstorming

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by Salmo_g, Aug 10, 2017.

  1. Bryce Levin

    Bryce Levin Active Member

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    What is the commercial value of the wild steelhead in the Skagit? What is the commercial value of catch and release fisheries in Montana? Really? Please elaborate on how the steelhead in the Skagit are more valuable to the economy then the trout in the Rockies...

    It is a management issue and if the Montana took the same approach regarding wild, native fish, there wouldn't be much open to fish.

    While I agree that the massive crowds do not directly benefit the fish on the Skagit. The Hoh, Sol Duc, Calawah, Bogachiel, Queets, and Quinalt all win. And if we are talking about conservation of wild steelhead, thats seems like a win to me. Especially if other rivers in the PS can follow a hopefully successful Skagit model.

    Get off your high horse.
     
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  2. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    Do yourself a favor and ignore this asshat. He isn't on a high horse, he lives in the sewer and attempts to pull you down into his shit. He offers nothing constructive and his objective is to derail any constructive conversations.
     
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  3. bennysbuddy

    bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

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    Would you take your soapbox back to the conservation forum, we all got your message here & are trying to create a constructive conversation on Skagit river fishing regs and how to fund them.
     
  4. _WW_

    _WW_ Geriatric Skagit Swinger

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    You mean this forum? Cforum.jpg
     
  5. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan ignoring Freestoneangler Rob Allen and Generic

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    Mine looks very similar WW.

    I hope to see you soon. One neat thing that OS has done is allow me to meet a bunch of really good people. Thanks for that Wain!


    Go Sox,
    cds
     
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  6. Albula

    Albula Active Member

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  7. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    Lots of ad hominin responses from the regular Skagit River peanut gallery and nothing substantive. The data in post #64 speaks for itself.

    You mean as in we only want people on this forum who think like we do to participate? If you don't like and don't want to read my responses, join the rest of the choir and use the ignore feature.
     
  8. Big Tuna

    Big Tuna Member

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    You're kind of a dick.
     
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  9. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    Really, that's all you can bring to the discussion? This small group has been trying to shout out those of us who disagree with their motives/movement for years now. Leaving this as a one sided monotone discussion, while undoubtedly their desire, is a disservice to the long term survival of wild Skagit Steelhead. Many others read this forum and never engage... they can decide for themselves.
     
  10. Big Tuna

    Big Tuna Member

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    No, it's not all I can bring. It's just an observation. Your comments on this issue do not encourage dialogue; they are incendiary. You're not interested in an intelligent discussion; you just want to stir the pot with your self-righteous bull shit.
     
  11. Jeremy Floyd

    Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

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    I vote that he's a cunt, if only he was that deep and warm
     
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  12. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    What's self righteous about wanting to protect a threatened species? The numbers and projected forecast are not looking good...haven't for a long time. That some are selfish enough to simply ignore that deserves rebuttal. They don't want dialogue and discussion unless it is in perfect harmony with their message and self interest. That's why most have chosen to use the ignore feature after failing to shout down opposing views. If you're amongst the staunch open it up for steelhead fishing supporters, I can understand the one sided review and perspective.
     
  13. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    I do not believe you have data to back up this statement. Please provide more insight as to why the ignore feature is being used.
     
  14. constructeur

    constructeur Active Member

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    You think you've saved any fish by being a keyboard warrior?
     
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  15. Smalma

    Smalma Active Member

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    Freestoneangler-
    Nothing wrong with wanting to protect a threatened species. However I draw a different conclusion from the graph you presented in post # 64 of this thread. I believe it is very important to take such information and put in the context of what is going on in the big picture.

    Anyone that has been paying attention that there has been a massive change in marine survival (smolt to adult survival) for Puget Sound steelhead between the 1980s and this century. I believe that is driving you so-called trend. Consider that on the Keogh river on north Vancouver Island where there is an excellent long term data base on both wild steelhead smolt production (smolt trap) and adult returns from the late 1970s to today. During the 1980s the average Keogh river smolt survival was in excess of 10% and this century has been around 2%. A recent paper looked at the changes in smolt to adult across the region comparing the 1980s survival with that of this century. Their finds showed that Puget Sound survivals had declined 53%, Strait Juan de Fuca survivals had declined34%, the Washington coast survivals declined 22%, lower Columbia survivals declined 13% and the Georgia basin declined43%. In the face of that survival paradigm shift the Skagit numbers look pretty good; I would argue that the trend this century is at least stable.

    In 2008 (using information up to 2006) a look at the long-range (over the next 100 years) risk of extinction of Skagit wild winter found that there was zero risk. The information since then has only confirmed that low risk of extinction. The historic low escapement in 2009 was particularly insightful. That brood year produced more than 3 adults for every spawning; a remarkable productivity for steelhead and a clear indication of the resilience of the wild steelhead of the Skagit basin. I think we will find that the feds will find that the Skagit fisheries management plan will not represent a significant increase in long term risk of extinction.

    Given the obvious low smolt survival it is likely that the average Skagit wild steelhead escapements this century have been more than adequate to seed the available juvenile habitat in the basin. If we collectively are interesting in improving the lot of the ESA threatened Skagit wild steelhead it is pass time to re-focus our discussion from hatchery and harvest issues to one that may actually improve the capacity of the Skagit basin to support more juvenile steelhead (produce more smolts). That of course means focusing the discussions/actions on the hydro and habitat "Hs".

    Our collective ability to re-focus that discussion will largely be dependent on passionate advocates for that resource. One of the surest way to develop and strength that advocacy will through allow anglers access to that resource; especially if that access does not threaten the long term viability of that resource.

    Curt
     
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