PS Chambers Creek lawsuit settlement??

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by Smalma, Apr 25, 2014.

  1. Smalma

    Smalma Active Member

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    Skeena88

    Not surprising that we have different "views" which I suspect is a result of our personal experiences with WFW; I know that is the case for me.

    For me in this case "...working cooperatively and in good faith ...." for WFC means if we don't like the end product (and I can't see any way a integrated program could be developed that WFC could support)we'll sue your "ass" and oh by the way thanks for doing our homework for us.

    Curt
     
  2. TallFlyGuy

    TallFlyGuy Adipossessed!

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    Curt, are you familiar with or have access to the Broodstock study/program going on in the Kalama? Are they finding that it is not working? Could that data be used to help keep the broodstock program out of the Skagit?
     
  3. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    No fishing means there will be no issues with enforcement, deciding what restrictions will be established, and not a single fish lost to C&R.

    I doubt it's your "last time" and I'm flattered to be listed among such notable groups. Don't know for sure, but perhaps they, like me, feel that it's simply better to err on the safe side and not introduce any controllable risks... you know, just in case your opinion might be incorrect. Perception may have something to do with it as well. Fishing over a threatened species is counter-intuitive to many outside the sport -- kind of like allowing campfires when the forest is as dry as a popcorn fart. The Skagit is not exactly a remote location and it could easily become the same circus as what's happened on the Hoh (in fact, more likely given it's location to Seattle). It's all about protecting a threatened species -- not whether some folks having trouble with not being able to fish them get to do so. I'm curious, why are you having such trouble not being able to fish the Skagit? There are hoards of folks (myself included) who would like to fish it but are OK not doing so. Perhaps you and the core OS group are the minority on this subject...but just happen to be the most outspoken.

    Roll back the clock. Could we have been having the same discussion when the epic runs of 80k fish dwindled to 40k... and then to 20k? Could the futures of the sport be having this discussion if the number drop from 8k to 4k...and then at 2k? Sure wish we could predict the future (some think they can on lots of subjects), but we can't.
     
  4. Smalma

    Smalma Active Member

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    TallFlyGuy-
    I'm somewhat familiar with the Kalama wild broodstock program (as well as several other western Washington winters - including two on the Skagit basin, Nooksack, Sol Duc, and a couple rescue programs) and it is because of that familiarity that reasonably certain that wild broodstock on the Skagit system will be bad news for the wild steelhead.

    The very conditions that from a hatchery/wild interactions perspective mad the Skagit one the best locations for a segregated hatchery program on Puget Sound and one of the worst in the State for an integrated program. In making that judgment I am using the yard stick of maintaining both the diversity and productivity of the Skagit wild steelhead. Virtually every hatchery/wild issues that you had such concerns about with Chambers Creek/wild Skagit would be at least as and in some case much worst with a Skagit wild brood stock/wild population. The Kalama situation has several advantages (from brood stock collection and culture challenges) that are not available on the Skagit. In addition there is the complication of the tribal fishery. Further it appears that on the Kalama that they are not attempting to use a brood stock that would be representative of the wild population and it would be my preference and am hoping that returning hatchery adults from a wild Skagit program would be representative of the Skagit wild population.

    Trading a integrated program that meets established hatchery/wild interactions criteria for a segregated that can not would be significant step backwards of wild Skagit steelhead

    Again this probably is not the best thread for a detailed discussion of the pros and cons of a wild Skagit steelhead brood stock program. If there is really much interest in getting into some of the details I would be more than willing to take part in a "Wild Skagit Steelhead Brood Program Benefits and Issues" thread.

    Curt
     
  5. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

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    it seems odd to me that hatcheries that have recently had paltry returns somehow satisfy treaty fishing rights but removing hatcheries that do not contribute to meaningful fisheries abridge those same rights.

    as i've said previously i think many of these issues need to actually be settled in court. i would rather lose a court case and then manage based on the law than continue management based on perceptions of what the law might be. we really do need to know if hatchery plants are required to satisfy boldt or not.
     
  6. _WW_

    _WW_ Geriatric Skagit Swinger

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    And when they are deemed to not be threatened...what then?
     
  7. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    Then you can ask Billy Frank Jr. if he'll let you fish.
     
  8. HauntedByWaters

    HauntedByWaters Active Member

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    FYI, this closure will not affect the poachers I see fishing the Skagit nearly every day I am at work.

    This closure will only affect the good guys.
     
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  9. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    If you see poachers everyday why are you not reporting them? I spend a lot of time on the river even though it is closed. I am up there shooting pictures several times a week and I have yet to see any poachers. If I did I would be taking their pictures and contacting WDFW enforcement.

    If you don't want to report them tell me where they are at and I will.
     
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  10. HauntedByWaters

    HauntedByWaters Active Member

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    I have reported them a lot Kerry. It is usually a guy standing on the edge of the woods with a spinning rod and he quickly vaporizes when we shoot by. Lately I have been driving up and down the South Skagit HW and have seen a few from the road too. These guys know how to not get caught. I see this type of crap mostly between Sedro and Concrete.
     
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  11. Chris Johnson

    Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

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    I don't believe the WFC would or did trade the Chambers creek fish for an integrated hatchery. I believe what they were after was no Steelhead hatchery on the Skagit and that is what they got, for 12 yrs. What the settlement did was give them a seat at the table if one is proposed, which I believe they would opposed. I think there was a brood program on the Skagit in the 80's that was a failure which will give them some ammo.

    With the returns to the Marblemount hatchery over the last 10 years what is the value of keeping it or the Nooksack hatchery going?
     
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  12. Skeena88

    Skeena88 Member

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    You nailed it exactly Chris. It is unfortunate that the original poster who said "The fact that WFC would agree to such a potential program as part of the settlement IMHO is a clear signal that the suit was never about wild steelhead." did so without even reading the consent decree.
     
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  13. Jerry Daschofsky

    Jerry Daschofsky Moderator Staff Member

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    This has happened to me A LOT over the years. I still report when I see it happening. But in all my years doing it, I don't think I've ever seen an enforcement officer show up. And quite a few of the spots are within 5-10 minutes of their regional office. I still keep calling it in though.......
     
  14. _WW_

    _WW_ Geriatric Skagit Swinger

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    Careful, your prejudice is showing...
     
  15. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    I know there is poaching on the river. I just don't believe it is as bad as you want us to believe. I spend a large amount of time on the Skagit. Yes, from time to time I will see someone poaching but not very damn often. The worst offenders are those that live right on the river. They will set their plunkin' rigs out at dark and retrieve them in the morning before light. WDFW enforcement is aware of these people and I would not be surprised if they could name them on a fist name bases. Keep reporting them and someday they will get caught. By reporting it WDFW officers know where to watch and sooner or later even the best screw up.
     
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