NFR Question about baiting for hunting

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Kim McDonald, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. Kim McDonald

    Kim McDonald member

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    I'm not a hunter (although I am an avid consumer of the end results of hunts). I have a place in NCW which is considered prime mule deer habitat and a neighboring land owner between my place and USFS land. The neighbor and I have had several run ins during hunting season because he gives every Tom, Dick, and Harry permission (and the lock combo) to drive through my land (he has an easement) to hunt. So yesterday I watched his son drive up with a huge wood crate of apples and after the kid left, I went up to check on my suspicions, and indeed, the apples were left near a small stream and Aspen stand, perfect deer habitat. They are baiting for next weekend (opening weekend of the season).

    Now, I have no problems with hunting. And I understanding baiting for deer and elk is legal in Washington State.

    But it seems like cheating to me. Is it? In this case, because of how dry it's been and the fact this land owner also mowed then herbicided his fields, making food sources scarce, it is almost like throwing dynamite in a fish pond. But if it is the generally accepted method hunting deer, I'll stop being bugged by it.

    Is it?

    Below is a picture of the "apple stash."

    Many thanks!

    --Kim IMGP8370.JPG
     
  2. Citori

    Citori Piscatorial Engineer

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    I did a quick check. It's legal, even on state land. Legal? yes. Ethical...?

    You might want to post the location/coordinates so some others on the board could benefit... just sayin'
     
  3. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

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    what a waste of apples
     
  4. TD

    TD Active Member

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    Baiting is a method used. Many would argue that it is cheating. Anyone that has done it can attest that it isn't as simple and productive as many would think. Many people assume you throw a pile of apples out there every couple of days for a week or 2 and then on opening day you go out and shoot an animal. There are way too many factors involved for it to be that simple and it isn't that effective.

    What I have found is that the more people truely know and experience first hand by doing, the more difficult it is to take a firm stance on either side of these debates. Eventually, it boils down to what provides the individual with whatever experience they are after when they step into the field. After awhile you start to realize that the beads vs. swinging, nymphing vs. dry flies, baiting vs. not, modern firearms vs. muzzleloaders, muzzleloaders vs. archery, compond bows vs. traditional, sleds vs. drifting, wading vs. boats, etc, etc, etc, etc, all boil down to what provides each person with the experience and feeling of self satisfaction that they are searching for in the field.
     
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  5. Kim McDonald

    Kim McDonald member

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    Haha. It's bad enough that the adjacent landowner essentially tells everyone in the county that it's ok to access the USFS land through his land, so sorry, no coordinates!

    I had done my research and knew it was legal in Washington (not many other states, however), but am really wondering about the ethical or sense of fair chase in it. Like I said, it feels like dynamite in a fish pond.

    I was thinking of taking my dogs up there and letting them, well, er, use the apples as a fire hydrant thinking the scent might scare off the deer...!

    Kim
     
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  6. Kim McDonald

    Kim McDonald member

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    Yes, TD, I would agree that it's as complicated as the debates in our fly fishing world...and my guess is baiting like that isn't as effective as some would think, although this is the second time I've seen this guy (or hid son) do it, so they must be able to get some buck out of the deal.

    Kim
     
  7. gbeeman

    gbeeman Active Member

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    Not something I would do or feel good about knowing someone who does.

    GBeeman
     
  8. Kim McDonald

    Kim McDonald member

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    When I saw them taking the load of apples, I first thought baiting for deer was illegal in this state, but it isn't. So I don't think there is much I can do about it. It's on his land, not federal or state...

    Kim
     
  9. Bill Aubrey

    Bill Aubrey Active Member

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    You might be able to do something about his giving out the combo. How far does his easement extend? Can he let everybody in the state cross your land. He has an easement for ingress and egress, not for a highway. You might want to check with a lawyer. I am definitely not anti-hunting but to me, what he is doing is not hunting, it is killing. That being the case, I might serenade the "hunters" with some really nice heavy metal. Deer love it. And let the dogs do their thing overtime.
     
  10. Jonathan Tachell

    Jonathan Tachell Active Member

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    Is it ethical? Depends on the person I guess. The state opens deer season for a week or two to reduce the numbers of deer to maintain a healthy population. You are aloud one deer a year here in washington ( unless you are lucky and draw a secand deer tag for a certain area) so what difference does it make how you harvest that deer so long as it is legal. If the state does not think the deer population can handle someone taking one deer a year then they should change some of their regulations.
     
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  11. jeff bandy

    jeff bandy Make my day

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    Jonathan, ethically speaking. Please tell me the difference between this and snagging for salmon.
    I don't have a problem harvesting from the wild. But I think it should be sporting.
     
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  12. bennysbuddy

    bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

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    I guess spotlighting deer should be legal as long as you only shoot one deer,or how about as long as you only take your daily limit of salmon you should be able to use a gillnet
     
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  13. jeff bandy

    jeff bandy Make my day

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    How about dynamite C&R?
     
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  14. Jonathan Tachell

    Jonathan Tachell Active Member

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    If you read my post I did not say I was in favor of baiting deer. Only stated that it should be up to the individual on how they would like to harvest their one deer as long at it is LEGAL to do so. Jeff and bennysbuddy it is illegal for the recreational fisherman to snag fish, use dynamite or gillnet fish. That is the difference! Baiting deer is LEGAL, whether you or I agree with it is our own choice or opinion. It is up to each hunter on whether or not that they feel it is ethical or the way they would like to hunt. Personally I don't bait deer but if someone wants to im not going to tell them they are a dirt bag for performing a legal act in order to try and harvest a deer.
     
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  15. Kim McDonald

    Kim McDonald member

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    Adding to this debate the neighbor is not exactly "harvesting" deer for dinner. He is quite affluent. Does big game hunts in Montana and Alaska. My guess is, unless he is an illusionist, he doesn't "need" this deer to feed his family.

    Don't know if that makes any difference....but for some reason it sort of bugs me. It isn't pay to play, it's I own an orchard (among other things), I own lots of property that also happen to be prime deer habitat...so why does he need to bait the deer, when they are quite prevalent all over his land?

    Kim