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Question about baiting for hunting

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3K views 51 replies 20 participants last post by  xdog 
#1 ·
I'm not a hunter (although I am an avid consumer of the end results of hunts). I have a place in NCW which is considered prime mule deer habitat and a neighboring land owner between my place and USFS land. The neighbor and I have had several run ins during hunting season because he gives every Tom, Dick, and Harry permission (and the lock combo) to drive through my land (he has an easement) to hunt. So yesterday I watched his son drive up with a huge wood crate of apples and after the kid left, I went up to check on my suspicions, and indeed, the apples were left near a small stream and Aspen stand, perfect deer habitat. They are baiting for next weekend (opening weekend of the season).

Now, I have no problems with hunting. And I understanding baiting for deer and elk is legal in Washington State.

But it seems like cheating to me. Is it? In this case, because of how dry it's been and the fact this land owner also mowed then herbicided his fields, making food sources scarce, it is almost like throwing dynamite in a fish pond. But if it is the generally accepted method hunting deer, I'll stop being bugged by it.

Is it?

Below is a picture of the "apple stash."

Many thanks!

--Kim
Plant People in nature Insect Natural landscape Groundcover
 
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#38 ·
I assume you have successfully baited for big game before and can attest to its lack of challenge? I assume further that you have successfully hunted other more ethically acceptable methods and can elaborate as to how one method is morally acceptable over the other?

There is no ethically acceptable methods in killing, but there is in hunting and this isn't it.

Why bait a deer with apples when you can hunt an orchard? That's the way I was taught, there's a lot more to hunting than horns and meat for those who care to learn or pass it on. That's the brotherhood you speak of.
 
#51 ·
Are you saying hunting over bait is merely killing with no hunt prowess or skill involved? How so? Do you honestly think you can just dump a pile of apples anywhere wait for a few minutes and tip over a deer? Have you ever seen or hunted over a pile of apples like that in a harvested or even a harvested orchard? Have you ever hunted over bait? Have you even successfully hunted at all? You sound a lot like some one that has not.

Hunter success rates for Mule Deer in Washington state run at about 25% on the average including antler less deer which I would guess to comprise about half of that total. So in other words even with all the evil advantages that baiting affords most Muley hunters have about a 75 % chance of failing to harvest any deer and even higher odds yet against them coming home with a buck. That's a much more realistic view if the effectiveness of using bait for deer and the odds of finding success on the simple advice of 'Take a hike,.....scout.....kill them, eat them".

There is very much more to hunting than horns and meat, that I think we can all agree on.

:)
 
#39 ·
I don't think any form of hunting lacks challenge. But challenge isn't the issue here. Nor am I an ethicist. I am merely asking the question of others, if they feel, as I do, that baiting is not appropriate. As I mentioned, many states, states that have huge populations of hunters, have banned baiting for deer. Why?
 
#42 ·
I don't think any form of hunting lacks challenge. But challenge isn't the issue here. Nor am I an ethicist. I am merely asking the question of others, if they feel, as I do, that baiting is not appropriate. As I mentioned, many states, states that have huge populations of hunters, have banned baiting for deer. Why?
Same reason it's illegal to snag salmon in washington. 5% of the hunters take 95% of the deer killed every season..or so. They would have to reduce bag limits if baiting was allowed in those states. (ever tried to only kill 1/4 of a deer and release the rest?) Washington has more deer than habitat. Land we have...wild food for deer we don't. We need to kill x amount of deer every year. Where I grew up hunting "the same herd my entire hunting life", it was illegal to bait for a period of time before the season started. It didn't really matter tho since we planted feed corn and grasses to keep them out of the vegetable gardens anyway and deer are creatures of habit. They'll pound the same trails untill you give them a reason(scent) not to. We knew every individual deer out of that herd by sight, even down to what doe mothered them. Sometimes you could tell who the buck was based on it's spread or even one bucks line always had a weird akward looking gate that made them fast as racehorses. Maybe that experience is why I look at it from more of a harvesting/self management perspective and not as an ethical one. We only took what we could without damaging the herd that my family had been hunting for well over 250 years...Even if we had the tags to do so.

Either way, it sounds like your neighbor has a douchebag delux for a son and he needs a serious steel toe boot to the balls to get him in line. That's what would've happend to me or my bros as kids if we wasted an animal like that. Unfortunatly, that is frowned upon in todays vagi-society so you're going to have to deal with a dickhead neighbor earning his well deserved adjective. I'd plant a field of rye/wheat and feed corn on my property surrounded by a 60' wall of ridiculous thick cover. Sounds extreme but those assholes aren't going to see another deer if they are already fat and laid up in the thick stuff.
 
#43 ·
Wow, talk about assumptions. I used to work for a hunting/wildlife organization which did a lot of work in preserving and protecting habitat for hunters just like you and me in my younger days...you're making a lot of assumptions here, xdog, from accusing me I am about to harass a hunter to telling me I know nothing about wildlife and game management.

And if you look at the list I posted, xdog, a majority of states ban baiting. Including Idaho, which I would classify as a very pro-hunting state. Most states ban baiting during hunting season....

Again, thanks for your contribution to this discussion.

Kim
 
#45 ·
Wow, talk about assumptions. I used to work for a hunting/wildlife organization which did a lot of work in preserving and protecting habitat for hunters just like you and me in my younger days...you're making a lot of assumptions here, xdog, from accusing me I am about to harass a hunter to telling me I know nothing about wildlife and game management.

And if you look at the list I posted, xdog, a majority of states ban baiting. Including Idaho, which I would classify as a very pro-hunting state. Most states ban baiting during hunting season....

Again, thanks for your contribution to this discussion.

Kim
Hey good for you I will be sure to send you an award regarding to contribution to wildlife!

Regarding assumptions, you might read again what I posted. I never said you were harassing anyone I did however do you the favor of enlightening you some of the ideas you suggested may in fact violate Washington law. I also posted that "you sound a lot like one of those people" that don't know of what they speak, I stand by that.
 
#47 ·
I think baiting trains wildlife to access habitat that they might not normally access. It's like leaving dog kibble on the back porch and wondering why you have a raccoon problem.

I am not a big fan of deer, to be frank. As far as I am concerned they are tick vectors.

That said, baiting is training deer to access habitat they normally would not during hunting season. If you want to hunt deer, great. Take a hike, a walk, scout where they are, find them, kill them, eat them. I am happy. but luring them closer to you, training them to come closer, to come where they normally would not....and then shooting them; why don't you just go raise cattle or pigs?

When I fly fish I study the river. I watch the hatch. I try to figure out where the fish are, not try to lure them to where I want them to be so I can catch them. There is a huge difference in my opinion. I am trying to be part of their habitat rather than making them part of mine. If that sounds too whoo-whoo for you, sorry!

Kim
 
#48 ·
That said, baiting is training deer to access habitat they normally would not during hunting season. If you want to hunt deer, great. Take a hike, a walk, scout where they are, find them, kill them, eat them. I am happy. but luring them closer to you, training them to come closer, to come where they normally would not....and then shooting them; why don't you just go raise cattle or pigs?
Take another look at your photo. He basically dumped a pile of deer food on top a pile of wild grown deer food. Was there a deer trail beaten there, honestly? If there wasn't I'd be suprised.
 
#49 ·
No, it's a human track. There is an irrigation pipe near there that takes water from a small stream down the hill to a ranch and a home. Lots of human traffic up there to fix the PVC pipe (it's not my water right but a rancher's down the road that I let cross my land and use my pedestrian easement to fix the pipe).

But there are deer all over and game trails every where.

It is a prolific deer area. Which is another reason I wonder about the baiting. It's prolific. It's like the Methow Valley, deer every where. What is the need to bait? if you just huck it up the hills, you'll get your buck.

Kim
 
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