NFR Question about baiting for hunting

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Kim McDonald, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. Trustfunder

    Trustfunder Active Member

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    Call me old school or an Indian but this is a far cry from hunting, it shows a lack of respect to the animal being hunted. If one can't match knowledge, experience and persistence to a game animal using fair chase methods, then IMO they don't deserve it.

    What's even more bothersome is this person is teaching the 20yr old absolutely nothing about hunting.... it's similar to the fast food mentality, I want it here, like this and right now.

    This is why people can't or don't understand those that do hunt, what a disgrace.
     
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  2. Nick Clayton

    Nick Clayton Active Member

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    So would you prefer they drive to Safeway and purchase meat that has been shown just as little respect in the slaughter house?

    All this talk of sport, ethics, respect....bottom line animals die and people eat them. As long as laws are followed correctly, what difference does it make how they die? You think a bullet to the chest feels better to a deer if its delivered in what some people consider a more sporting fashion?



     
  3. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

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    Don't confuse harvesting with hunting. Baiting deer for harvest is not hunting. It's more akin to trapping and I would say much more respectfull to the animal than cramming 200 head of cattle in a pen and splitting their skulls open with a hammer. When's the last time you had a hamburger? When's the last time you ate a piece of chicken? How about a pork chop? Ham sandwich? I'll guarentee those animals didn't go out while eating a pile of fresh fruit by a well placed round after living a wild life.

    Quit trying to turn hunting/harvesting/trapping into a romance novel with a later to be announced chick flick in disquise starring some walking hollywood mangina. It's bad enough you guys had to do it to flyfishing. There's no reason to bust a guys balls for trying to legally fill his freezer before winter. The only thing that's even remotly messed up about the picture is he wasted about 5 gallons worth of perfectly good hard cider apples. He should've used unschucked feed corn. It works better anyway and there isn't a chance that the deer will be laid up in the brush with a hangover on opening day.
     
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  4. xdog

    xdog Active Member

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    Baiting for big game in Washington State is a legal activity. If you believe it is the equivalent to "dynamite in a fish pond" (an illegal act) you are simply exhibiting your ignorance.

    A few points of fact for your education on the topic since your so fired up about the legalities of hunting.

    It is illegal to harass or obstruct a legal hunt in the State of Washington, which arguably you have already or are considering doing so.
    http://www.huntwashingtonstate.com/HWS/washingtonhuntinglaws.htm

    Trespass is also Illegal which apparently you have admitted to and further posted evidence thereof in this thread.

    Further you presume very much about hunting which admittedly and obviously you know little about. You have impled that this person doesn't need to hunt because he affluent? Seriously? You further imply that because he hunts multiple states you assume the meat is unused or wasted? Do you have any basis of fact or they big assumptions on you behalf. You might consider the fact that some of us actually enjoy hunting and not merely because we have to, much like the fact few if any of us "have" to fish. I can assure you that I, me, my family of one has no problem consuming 3-5 big animals in addition to many waterfowl and a occasional fish annually.

    You said you do not oppose hunting and question the ethics and legality of your neighbor, while your ranting, ethics and legality are really the topics in question here. So now let me ask you is it you or neighbor that is the "illusionist"?
     
  5. xdog

    xdog Active Member

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    Ignorance is why people don't understand hunting.

    I assume you have successfully baited for big game before and can attest to its lack of challenge? I assume further that you have successfully hunted other more ethically acceptable methods and can elaborate as to how one method is morally acceptable over the other?

    Some of you might remind yourselves that fishing is essentially hunting for fish. Even if you release every fish you catch there will be some mortality in addition to playing a fish to a point of trauma and exhaustion prior to release, not because we have to but simply rather because we enjoy it.

    I certainly don't expect nor should every fisherman be a hunter but I do have hopes and expectations that fisherman should have a closer remedial understanding and respect for thier brotherhood with hunters.
     
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  6. Kim McDonald

    Kim McDonald member

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    Sorry to burst your bubble xdog, but I have an easement to go on his land (negotiated because he made a HUGE mistake when he subdivided and forgot to get an easement then threatened to sue me if he didn't get one...). And again, sorry to deflate your response, but I think I said what he was doing was legal, I know that. What I was curious about is whether it seemed similar to dynamite in a fish pond, given the food scarcity issues this year for deer. So my friend, before you get cranky, read my first post. Just because baiting for deer is legal doesn't mean it should be. There are many states where it isn't so finding similarities in a discussion is, frankly, legitimate.

    AND, by the way, I am not assuming anything about this gentleman. He has told me specifically he does not eat the game he hunts in Montana and Alaska and he does NOT hunt here. His son, his relatives, and his "accounts" as he calls them, do. His son told me he also doesn't eat the meat. It's about trophies for them. Just repeating what he told me.

    And I have no intent on "harassing" as you called it anyone. This gentlemen's friends have left carcasses in my driveway, .22 shells near my barn, shot through my house when it was in construction (despite the fact the easement specifically says no shooting nor arrows nor...on my property), have driven ATVs all over my fields. And to all of that, all I have ever done has emailed him to ask him to restrain his friends etc.

    Harassment? Hmmmmmm. Me thinks he and his friends are harassing me, but that is a whole other story.

    Thanks for your input.
     
  7. Trustfunder

    Trustfunder Active Member

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    Point taken, Dead is Dead. However the reference to cows, pigs, turkeys, chickens in Safeway compared to baiting a deer there is a difference.

    One rancher/farmer raised those animals from infancy to market,to make a profit, provide a service feeding folks, the main thing here is he owned those animals. Do I have a right to go up to him and determine how that animal dies? NO. Just like I wouldn't go over to your house and tell you how to mow your lawn.

    Now that deer is a "public resource" owned by the state and the people of the state. Like anything public everyone has an opinion and I just expressed mine.
     
  8. Trustfunder

    Trustfunder Active Member

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    I assume you have successfully baited for big game before and can attest to its lack of challenge? I assume further that you have successfully hunted other more ethically acceptable methods and can elaborate as to how one method is morally acceptable over the other?

    There is no ethically acceptable methods in killing, but there is in hunting and this isn't it.

    Why bait a deer with apples when you can hunt an orchard? That's the way I was taught, there's a lot more to hunting than horns and meat for those who care to learn or pass it on. That's the brotherhood you speak of.
     
  9. Kim McDonald

    Kim McDonald member

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    I don't think any form of hunting lacks challenge. But challenge isn't the issue here. Nor am I an ethicist. I am merely asking the question of others, if they feel, as I do, that baiting is not appropriate. As I mentioned, many states, states that have huge populations of hunters, have banned baiting for deer. Why?
     
  10. Kim McDonald

    Kim McDonald member

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  11. xdog

    xdog Active Member

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    You aren't bursting my bubble or deflating my response but thank you for the out reach of concern.

    You failed to see my point that baiting for deer is a legal pursuable activity while "dynamiting fish" clearly is not and as such the two are in no way similar.

    If my response has given you the impression that I am cranky it is likely in part that the chief reason baiting isn't legal in many states (including Washington for Bear) it is because a small group of anti hunters and non hunters the vast majority of which have never have not, nor ever will spend a single day hunting in thier lives that no little or no knowledge about wildlife. People that havent donated a single dollar or moment of thier life to benefit wildlife or conservation. People that dont have the slightest clue of what hunting is or is not. These are the well meaning folks come up with misaligned, pious ideas of what "they" think is right or wrong regarding hunting and decide its prudent to impose those ideas on hunters and wildlife managers by supporting and getting laws enacted that make them feel warm and fuzzy about how well Bambi sleeps at night.

    You sound a lot like one of those people......
     
  12. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

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    Same reason it's illegal to snag salmon in washington. 5% of the hunters take 95% of the deer killed every season..or so. They would have to reduce bag limits if baiting was allowed in those states. (ever tried to only kill 1/4 of a deer and release the rest?) Washington has more deer than habitat. Land we have...wild food for deer we don't. We need to kill x amount of deer every year. Where I grew up hunting "the same herd my entire hunting life", it was illegal to bait for a period of time before the season started. It didn't really matter tho since we planted feed corn and grasses to keep them out of the vegetable gardens anyway and deer are creatures of habit. They'll pound the same trails untill you give them a reason(scent) not to. We knew every individual deer out of that herd by sight, even down to what doe mothered them. Sometimes you could tell who the buck was based on it's spread or even one bucks line always had a weird akward looking gate that made them fast as racehorses. Maybe that experience is why I look at it from more of a harvesting/self management perspective and not as an ethical one. We only took what we could without damaging the herd that my family had been hunting for well over 250 years...Even if we had the tags to do so.

    Either way, it sounds like your neighbor has a douchebag delux for a son and he needs a serious steel toe boot to the balls to get him in line. That's what would've happend to me or my bros as kids if we wasted an animal like that. Unfortunatly, that is frowned upon in todays vagi-society so you're going to have to deal with a dickhead neighbor earning his well deserved adjective. I'd plant a field of rye/wheat and feed corn on my property surrounded by a 60' wall of ridiculous thick cover. Sounds extreme but those assholes aren't going to see another deer if they are already fat and laid up in the thick stuff.
     
  13. Kim McDonald

    Kim McDonald member

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    Wow, talk about assumptions. I used to work for a hunting/wildlife organization which did a lot of work in preserving and protecting habitat for hunters just like you and me in my younger days...you're making a lot of assumptions here, xdog, from accusing me I am about to harass a hunter to telling me I know nothing about wildlife and game management.

    And if you look at the list I posted, xdog, a majority of states ban baiting. Including Idaho, which I would classify as a very pro-hunting state. Most states ban baiting during hunting season....

    Again, thanks for your contribution to this discussion.

    Kim
     
  14. xdog

    xdog Active Member

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    Why?

    Please tell us why baiting for deer should be illegal. Tell wildlife managers and sportsmen that have devoted their education, careers, money and free time studying deer and wildlife and are directly responsible for the fact that there are any deer left at all exactly why baiting is wrong, obviously we don't know what you do.

    :)
     
  15. xdog

    xdog Active Member

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    Hey good for you I will be sure to send you an award regarding to contribution to wildlife!

    Regarding assumptions, you might read again what I posted. I never said you were harassing anyone I did however do you the favor of enlightening you some of the ideas you suggested may in fact violate Washington law. I also posted that "you sound a lot like one of those people" that don't know of what they speak, I stand by that.