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Restricting Guides Services on Some Rivers?

13K views 167 replies 64 participants last post by  isaacfab 
#1 ·
I fish around in some other states for trout. The best fishing I have found is where guide service is not permitted on the river. The fishing is fabulous. (I don’t know where there are many “No Guides Permitted” rivers, but haven’t researched it) So, I have come to the conclusion that guide services impact rivers quite negatively because of the tremendous fishing pressures put on the rivers. I think this rule should be applied on more rivers to enhance the fishing quality. What say you? What is your opinion or have you thought of this much before? I don’t expect to be popular after this post….
 
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#54 ·
Oh, and don't forget your argyle and tweed.
What is wrong with argyle?

And as far as the rest of your post, for someone that claims to "Guide some" you sure have a crappy attitude for the people that pay for your wares. I mean those
well to do yankees coming up for their once a year sojurn to be "master steelheaders" and "sportsman".
pay your bills don't they?

Maybe you should post the name of your guide service so I can be sure to never use it.

With all the guided fishing and charters I have done over the years I have never had any guide treat the resource or the area surrounding it with anything but the utmost respect, most of the time the only fish that are even removed from the water are fish that are going to be killed.
 
#51 ·
As I recall, the last time I fished the Deschutes (no guide) I not only could not fish from the boat, but also had to have a prior float permit for designated days. It does not have to be expensive, and is done by computer. This helps keep down costs. Getting caught without one would be the same as not having a license--a fine. 3d offense, the state gets to keep the boat?

I do not think we need to eliminate fishing from a boat. I think some states do limit the numbers of guides on some stretches of some rivers. As to limiting guides to being WA residents, don't some of our WA guides also guide out of state, such as in Alaska and Montana. Might those states not reciprocate? I am not a guide, but let's not put our WA guides at a disadvantage.

I also agree with closing some rivers, if necessary, for a year or so. And as to the comments on fish handling, etc, I could not agree more. A lot of it is ignorance, but a lot of it is guys who just don't care, the same ones who fling a beer bottle or cigarette butt out the truck window.
 
#62 ·
NOTICE: Here's a fact I just confirmed with a favorite fly shop of mine. They have 178 people "signed up" for their "Introduction to Fly Fishing" classes for the time frame from January to July. So..... "welcome new fly fisher's, but could you please scoot over a little ways away from me? You're bumping my elbows, thank you". DFL ------ I'm not sure what to say right now, but, you get the point. We need more guides on our rivers!!!!! Not to mention, elbow room..... wholly crap!
 
#63 ·
I think that the biggest problem with guides out here is the total lack of barrier to entry into guiding. There are people advertising all over Craigslist. IMO a guide should at a minimum be required to carry insurance and first aid/CPR. I would prefer that a guide had to have a WFR certification and Swiftwater Rescue I. Anyone can be a guide here, I have a boat, maybe I'll just pay my $40 and call myself a guide? I would love to see no fishing from boats, on some rivers.
 
#75 ·
Speaking strictly in regards to wild steehead fisheries on the O.P., I would love to see a ban on fishing from boats. However, I doubt that the state would find value in the conservation benefit such a rule would entail, due to the fact that quite a few of the steelhead runs on the O.P. are considered healthy enough to allow an angler to harvest 1 wild steelhead per year. However, I suppose that one might be able to make a decent case for such a rule in sections of rivers where selective gear rules are in effect.

Furthermore, I am not so sure that limiting the number of guides will make much of a difference. However, using a raffle system to issue a limited number of boat permits using some sort of tier system to assign priority to certain user groups might not be a bad idea. For example, locals get first priority. (In other words, this would be the user group who gets the majority of the boat permits.) Those ouside of lets say the zip code get second priority. Those outside of the state get third priority. (In other words, the lesser number of boat permits are issued to this user group.) Anyhow, these are my thoughts on the matter.

Regards,

Andrew
 
#76 ·
This is true too, fly fishing should be flyfishing. No lead. Want to nymph? Okay, high stick and or learn to read your leader like we did back in the day. I have never understood how so many "flyfisher people" overlook the fact that this is plain ol' bobber fishing.

Infact, I think if a "modern flyfisher" were to use a old school red and white plastic bobber as one of his idiotcators he would be ridiculed for "bobber" fishin by many. Thats how stupid we have become.

Here's a poll. How many of you when socializing with friends might tell them you went "flyfishing" last week or over the weekend or whatever?. Back in the day, we would tell them we went fishing. Many of today's fisherman for some reason feel the need to express the fact that they went " flyfishing". What is that if not elitism?

Learn to "fish" and learn to swing and all will be good

oh well, tonights scotch was a good vintage
 
#77 ·
As with most things in life, there has to be balance. Private waters fish loads better (on average) than do waters that get overfished... no real revelation here. I don't think the question should be about guides so much as simply the number of people fishing. It would seem reasonable to assume that not having guides allowed would reduce the fishing pressure -- but maybe not.

With the fairly recent popularity of personal watercraft, places like the Green River at Flaming Gorge have been transformed into fishing super-highway's. I have a picture (will post if I can locate it) of a line of boats, the vast majority single seat pontoons, that I took from the hillside just downstream of the launch. It was comical to say the least -- there were 50+ all parked along the opposite side.

For the sake or making a point, let's just assume the population of flyfishers doubled tomorrow and that those rivers which see the majority of pressure get the same attention. Factor in the same ratio of folks using personal watercraft and IMHO cutting out the guides would not be the difference in the fishing experience, tranquility or catch rate, getting worse.

Truth is it might be worse w/o guides. I find they help educate folks on etiquette and most are good about giving bank/wade anglers space. Just imagine what that hypothetical doubling of fisherman might look like with no "formal training" :thumb:
 
#80 ·
I think is was four or five years ago I brought up the idea for a lottery or raffle, whatever you want to call it, for steelhead rivers. I am pretty sure I wasn't the first to think of this but I thought I was going to be tarred, feathered and run off the board for my suggestion. Amazing what a few years can do for an idea.
 
#82 ·
Look at the finacial supporters of conservation groups and the finacial supporters of this website they ALL are guides or where guides, there would be next to ZERO fishing developement W/O guides. Kill or harm the fish? why would a guide want to kill its busness partner,, huh come on really. Yes regulate for numbers of guides on all river, lakes , saltwater etc... but dont blame them this is the greatest country in the world a free country its a free market get over it.
 
#104 ·
Look at the finacial supporters of conservation groups ... they ALL are guides or where guides...
not true

there would be next to ZERO fishing developement W/O guides.
again, not true.

Kill or harm the fish? why would a guide want to kill its busness partner,, huh come on really.
there are still a lot of guides who kill the legal limit of wild steelhead for their clients. i'm sure you see it on a daily basis floating the lower rivers still open to wild fish retention.
 
#86 ·
I'm not against guides. Some of my very good friends are guides. However, depending on how its structured, I may disagree with certain guiding aspects. Guiding is a lower version of a commercial operation. How many bash commercial fishing on this site? Same idea, different levels of catch and impact. Guides are making money/profit off a public resource. They should have to pay for their impacts, just like non-guided recreational fishers should...with regard to their respective impact.

The state, likely through WDFW should have a bigger role in guiding operations such limiting the number of guides like what is done in Idaho and BC. In my opinion, guides should be better trained, have better credentials, and pay more for their privledge. Catch and keep guides should pay more for harvesting. C&R fishing should be discounted appropriately since their impact is smaller. Reducing the number of "wanna be" guides would go a long way to improving the social aspect of recreational fishing. Guides do not necessarily have the right to guide, it should be a privilege that is earned...by paying fees, taking courses, have specialized training, and should be limited. The general public should have more opportunity than guides and guiding should be emphasized for individuals who may not otherwise have an opportunity to fish (the elderly or handicapped, or charter fishing in the ocean or other big or dangerous water) than what the average citizen can access.

Finally, while preventing fishing from a boat may be appropriate for some waters as part of a biological or social management plan, it should be limited to the general public. Care is needed when applying broad restrictions. Many of you are only considering the fly fishing community as a whole. There is an entire, larger population segment to consider when applying blanket restrictions. The number one objective is providing the most recreational opportunity (and to an equal to WDFW but lesser extent in my book commercial opportunity) at the least amount of impact to the resource.
 
G
#90 ·
I think only somebody born in washington state , should be able to fish in this state, and further more if you weren't born on 6/26/1960, you can only fish on odd numbered fridays !!!! How about that for being fair????
 
#91 ·
As resources become less and less, and the population
becomes larger and larger it would seem that one day
we will be on a lottery to fish a specific river or lake.
Glad I'm old and don't have to give a shit about the long
term.....

Just call me Polly Anna.

Thanks for the depressing link Larry.

See you on Friday the 15th, I'm calling in sick.

Dave
 
#92 ·
Polly Anna may be right. Hope you are not Dave! Friday the 15th? As in April 15th? Where would you be recovering from your short but severe 24 hour illness?
 
#93 ·
Here's my suggestion to guides and recreational anglers alike: If you're going to take from the resource or use it in any way, give back to it. Bitching on a message board or clicking a "like" button on Facebook doesn't count. Your time, money and/or personal talents can be put to use to fix some of these problems.
 
#95 ·
How could a boat ban NOT decrease the pressure on fish? Heck, I think a lottery system for some steelie rivers should be initiated. Think about it. What better way to raise funds for a depleted wild steelie river than to have a lottery in place for that river. It would be like the Smith in MT. People paying high dollars just to fish river "X".

It's human nature to have what others want. Have a ticket to fish for the Grey Ghost on a limited access river. Oh yeah, and no boats to protect the "safe zones" for fish.
 
#96 ·
What many people fail to think about when initiating a "no fishing from floating craft" rule is the detriment to the shoreline and spawning areas. I spend a lot of time on the Klickitat, Methow and Wenatchee systems in the fall and used to spend a lot of time on the Skagit and Sauk system in the spring. In the fall when people are out hammering on steelhead just happens to be the same time most of the fall kings are spawning. I don't know how many people I watched on the Klickitat this fall waltz down the river right through king reds. The same goes for guys walking the river, such as the Upper Sauk. Unfortunately the some of the worst violators of this are guys that like to swing the fly simply because the method requires you to wade.

Lets step back and really look at the situation before we try to target one user group and make them the scapegoat and the reason for our fisheries demise. There are plenty of reasons why our fisheries are suffering and I promise that guides are not the main reason.
 
#121 ·
What many people fail to think about when initiating a "no fishing from floating craft" rule is the detriment to the shoreline and spawning areas. I spend a lot of time on the Klickitat, Methow and Wenatchee systems in the fall and used to spend a lot of time on the Skagit and Sauk system in the spring. In the fall when people are out hammering on steelhead just happens to be the same time most of the fall kings are spawning. I don't know how many people I watched on the Klickitat this fall waltz down the river right through king reds. The same goes for guys walking the river, such as the Upper Sauk. Unfortunately the some of the worst violators of this are guys that like to swing the fly simply because the method requires you to wade.
 
#97 ·
That's a great point muddler. I stepped on what "looked" like a red once, made me sick to my stomach all day. Normally I'm really careful, but at that moment I was looking for a place to make my next cast and was careless.

Still, on a selective river that requires a guide, you would have a spotter. Or fish exclusively from a boat and not from shore with a limited number of boats. But now I've highjacked this thread and that may be another discussion for another day.
 
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