Restricting Guides Services on Some Rivers?

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by dryflylarry, Feb 28, 2011.

  1. Davy

    Davy Active Member

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    This is true too, fly fishing should be flyfishing. No lead. Want to nymph? Okay, high stick and or learn to read your leader like we did back in the day. I have never understood how so many "flyfisher people" overlook the fact that this is plain ol' bobber fishing.

    Infact, I think if a "modern flyfisher" were to use a old school red and white plastic bobber as one of his idiotcators he would be ridiculed for "bobber" fishin by many. Thats how stupid we have become.

    Here's a poll. How many of you when socializing with friends might tell them you went "flyfishing" last week or over the weekend or whatever?. Back in the day, we would tell them we went fishing. Many of today's fisherman for some reason feel the need to express the fact that they went " flyfishing". What is that if not elitism?

    Learn to "fish" and learn to swing and all will be good

    oh well, tonights scotch was a good vintage
     
  2. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    As with most things in life, there has to be balance. Private waters fish loads better (on average) than do waters that get overfished... no real revelation here. I don't think the question should be about guides so much as simply the number of people fishing. It would seem reasonable to assume that not having guides allowed would reduce the fishing pressure -- but maybe not.

    With the fairly recent popularity of personal watercraft, places like the Green River at Flaming Gorge have been transformed into fishing super-highway's. I have a picture (will post if I can locate it) of a line of boats, the vast majority single seat pontoons, that I took from the hillside just downstream of the launch. It was comical to say the least -- there were 50+ all parked along the opposite side.

    For the sake or making a point, let's just assume the population of flyfishers doubled tomorrow and that those rivers which see the majority of pressure get the same attention. Factor in the same ratio of folks using personal watercraft and IMHO cutting out the guides would not be the difference in the fishing experience, tranquility or catch rate, getting worse.

    Truth is it might be worse w/o guides. I find they help educate folks on etiquette and most are good about giving bank/wade anglers space. Just imagine what that hypothetical doubling of fisherman might look like with no "formal training" :thumb:
     
  3. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

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    Seriously? How about going to start your own "I'm better because I only swing" thread and keep this one on topic.
     
  4. scottflycst

    scottflycst Active Member

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    Dick, what would you charge to take me along?
     
  5. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    I think is was four or five years ago I brought up the idea for a lottery or raffle, whatever you want to call it, for steelhead rivers. I am pretty sure I wasn't the first to think of this but I thought I was going to be tarred, feathered and run off the board for my suggestion. Amazing what a few years can do for an idea.
     
  6. ozcast

    ozcast Active Member

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    This is stupid. Ok then, since guides are the problem, and not miss-management, and not the nets, and not all the building on river banks, or the logging, or the dams, or the commercial fishing operations bribes, etc.ect.

    Do you really think that if the state closed all the rivers to fishing that we would see a drastic improvement? Sports fishing is not the problem. Boats are not the problem. Nymphing is not the problem. Miss-management and river netting is the problem, one of many, but one that could be fixed tomorrow. Everyone is pissed because there are too many people on the rivers these days. Same old song and dance...30 years ago blah blah blah. If anyone has a bitch about too many people on the rivers then take the fist step...stay home. There, problem solved. If your not willing to do that, then learn to deal with the added pressure the best you can. Maybe you could actually meet some really cool people.

    The fact of the matter is that there are more people on the rivers. More than ever. If you take all the guides off the rivers, you would still have all the presonal drift boats, sleds, rafts, and pontoon boats. You would still have millions of bank fisherman.

    As far as the comment about for every good guide ther are 5-10 bad ones. You honestly think the percentage is better for non-guides? really?
     
  7. Brazda

    Brazda Fly Fishing guide "The Bogy House" Lodge

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    Look at the finacial supporters of conservation groups and the finacial supporters of this website they ALL are guides or where guides, there would be next to ZERO fishing developement W/O guides. Kill or harm the fish? why would a guide want to kill its busness partner,, huh come on really. Yes regulate for numbers of guides on all river, lakes , saltwater etc... but dont blame them this is the greatest country in the world a free country its a free market get over it.
     
  8. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    Why didn't you just say you were a trout guy in the beginning? especially on the spey posts..Shit if you would have done that I wouldn't have gotten all over you!!! World of difference...but I'll ask you this? would you pound the last few trout in your fav. river when the water is so warm it could kill them and use beads?

    Fishing from boats and pounding the water with these rigs don't give the fish any break from the constant assault on them from all sides...The nice thing about swinging a fly is the fish won't mistake it for eggs and not try and crush it out of instinct. This is the big evil of roe etc. on systems with C&R policies etc. (this is a very simplified version but good enough for here)

    What is hard for me to believe is how everyone on here seems to think that it's all about pounding the hell out of these fish and they are failures if they aren't catching them....These are winter steelhead not summer runs...(which granted Wa. state doesn't seem to have shit for so your missing the best part of steelheading) It's not supposed to be simple.. Who the hell said it was? I'm goddamn tired of hearing the crying over trips without hero shots....That's part of the "game" the trill of fishing this way...god forbid you might go a couple months without a tug...that's mainly your fault..learn to read water and fish it...and a helluva lot to do with our fishing over about 1% of historic numbers of these fish....shit they were once considered a nuisance fish and pissed off the salmon guys.. we should all be thankful we're still fishing for them period..

    Yeah I harp on and on about beads...they are deadly in more then just catch rates and I'm tired of guys spouting conservation and then being dead silent about their using them...This isn't fancy..this is fact and that's why they are outlawed in states, provinces etc. I'm just curious as if you know that...why do you think it is and why do you persist?

    Fishing from the bank and swinging a fly is hard...tough shit...the bead bobbers...you'll NEVER know what the true feeling is of matching your knowledge and skill against a wild fish and hooking one and going for a ride...the tug is the drug is overused and worn out but word...Your missing the best part of the experience to feed your ego's...you are not and never will be a true winter steelhead fly fisherman!!! You are a gear guy fishing with fly rods...tell yourself all you want but that's it in a nutshell...and there is nothing wrong with fishing gear and catching all the fish you can...then maybe one day you'll want something that is not mindless and take up a fly again...and hopefully there are still fish by then...

    just for once...give the fish a freaking break... Yeah but you can all go to the hoh down and bust out your switch rods cause no one can cast anymore...fuck!!!

    Get off your butts and walk a river, tell the guides you want to fish from the bars and maybe a change will happen? Yeah right but I know the shop in Port Angles is putting out a petition to address this and my name will be on it!!! Hope the whole WFF site would be onboard as well...
     
  9. Mark Horwath

    Mark Horwath Member

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    If you think the regs are crazy now,I can only think of the problems it would create,everybody bitches now about them. Can't we all just get along.
     
  10. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

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    I catch a majority of my winter fish on the swing. But I still get joy out of getting one on a nymph rig. And who are you to tell me I don't understand this whole fishing thing? Last I checked, I'm pretty damn passionate about my fishing and caring about the resource. How I choose to fish that particular piece of water doesn't even factor in to any of it.

    And you're right; I can't cast for shit. But I know how to fish my shitty cast better than 99% of the casterbaters I've watched.
     
  11. BDD

    BDD Active Member

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    I'm not against guides. Some of my very good friends are guides. However, depending on how its structured, I may disagree with certain guiding aspects. Guiding is a lower version of a commercial operation. How many bash commercial fishing on this site? Same idea, different levels of catch and impact. Guides are making money/profit off a public resource. They should have to pay for their impacts, just like non-guided recreational fishers should...with regard to their respective impact.

    The state, likely through WDFW should have a bigger role in guiding operations such limiting the number of guides like what is done in Idaho and BC. In my opinion, guides should be better trained, have better credentials, and pay more for their privledge. Catch and keep guides should pay more for harvesting. C&R fishing should be discounted appropriately since their impact is smaller. Reducing the number of "wanna be" guides would go a long way to improving the social aspect of recreational fishing. Guides do not necessarily have the right to guide, it should be a privilege that is earned...by paying fees, taking courses, have specialized training, and should be limited. The general public should have more opportunity than guides and guiding should be emphasized for individuals who may not otherwise have an opportunity to fish (the elderly or handicapped, or charter fishing in the ocean or other big or dangerous water) than what the average citizen can access.

    Finally, while preventing fishing from a boat may be appropriate for some waters as part of a biological or social management plan, it should be limited to the general public. Care is needed when applying broad restrictions. Many of you are only considering the fly fishing community as a whole. There is an entire, larger population segment to consider when applying blanket restrictions. The number one objective is providing the most recreational opportunity (and to an equal to WDFW but lesser extent in my book commercial opportunity) at the least amount of impact to the resource.
     
  12. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

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    iagreeiagreeiagreeiagree
     
  13. nutsack angler

    nutsack angler newb

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    Word up!

    BTW Evan- send your fish handling pics to NOAA not WDFW
     
  14. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

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    Since they're not ESA listed fish, I didn't think that would do any good.
     
  15. bennysbuddy

    bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

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    I think only somebody born in washington state , should be able to fish in this state, and further more if you weren't born on 6/26/1960, you can only fish on odd numbered fridays !!!! How about that for being fair????