Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Vladimir Steblina, Apr 21, 2013.
Edited above for clarity. Hope that helps.
Also I agree with Metcalf's good remarks above
From what I understand, fluorocarbon is more susceptible to weakening when cinching up a knot(due to heat), much more so than mono.
But, simply stretching it? Normally, it is known to retain its strength longer than mono. Likely a bad batch.
A bit off topic, but... Really wet those fluorocarbon knots down before cinching them up!
The early "Fluorocarbon Blues" left a bad taste in my mouth for breaking strength and holding knots so I switched back to mono for a couple of seasons, then I read an article that said the same thing about generations. I picked up some new (Airflow?) fluoro and it seems strong and holds knots well. I think the lower refractive index mentioned has let me be successful using tippet a size heavier than I'd use with mono that might help turn over flies better with my mediocre casting.
BTW, I'm not an expert by any means but I read that mono weakens from water absorption; simply getting wet ?
This is correct, if it soaks long enough it can lose about 50% strength, I believe.
Jay, there is something more going on.
There were three or four batches covering different years. AND they were All rotten. The break point was higher than really rotten mono, but it was there. They broke without a knot, merely me pulling them.
It did not matter if it was the beginning or last part of the roll. The break was the same.
Ok, seems like you know more than the fishing expert. So is there any data on lifetime of FloroCarbon??
Anybody have old dated FloroCarbon they can test?? I did notice on the new stuff there was a space for me to write in the date.
Thanks for the tip on SeaGaur....I think I will look for it at Bi-Mart.
Segaur rocks, I have cut my hand pulling knot's.
This all sounds like there is a need for a college research project for someone studying something like material science. Are there any takers out there?
well, have you known anybody with a degree in material science that did anything useful.....or that you could understand??
I know you can't name the problem brand, but which brands have you had luck with?
I wonder if it's age and storage environment? Fluoro ought to be pretty resistant, but an ozone rich environment (contact relays, motors, furnaces, etc) can be rough on some materials.
This discussion has hit all the points I think.
the intrinsic properties of the material
the processing of the material into a monofilament product
the age and storage environment
extreme heat, solvent vapor exposure, or reactive gases might have affected the material.
since multiple different spools had the poor properties, perhaps they were stored together and all experienced the same environmental factors.
I would think somewhere along the way this tippet material got wet and than sat for a while! doesn't matter if it's mono or fluorocarbon if it's not taken care of.
After this winter I thought I lost my reading glasses (tying glasses) and looked through my back pack I use in my drifter for my glasses. all my fly box's and tippets and leaders and tools. just so happened that the bottom compartment had gotten wet and sat all winter. tools were ruined! some flies-pliers stuck together from rust. but all my leader material and tapered long leaders were just fine because they were all in zip-lock bags!
I tie my own flies so the things that cost me money to fly fish are LEADERS - TIPPETS - FLY LINES AND GAS! These things I am anal about! cleaning my fly lines and coating my dry lines with preserver and protecting my tippets and tapered leaders keeps the bills down for enjoying the sport, and gives me more money for gas.
I understand wanting to know just how long it takes fluoro and mono to degrade by science standards would be nice, but if it gets put away wet even pliers will rust and get ruined in no time. When protected in a cheap zip lock could take 5 years to brake down.
I have been using seagaur for over ten years and have had no problems. first testing it on stillwater steelhead in crystal clear water with schools of spooky fish. with gear rods bobber fishing with bait. when your boat hooks twenty and the boat next to you only hooks one using the same bait and tactics something says "IT'S THE LEADER" I went through all the brands that came out 15 years ago just testing them.
when maxima and p-line came out a few of my friends changed to those for strength, p-line and maxima fluoro can't be beat for strength but they are a thicker line and they just plain lie about the strength of their lines - 8 pound will brake at over 10 pounds most times. and I was still hooking more fish so one of my buddies started using 6 pound p-line to match my 8 pound seagaur. orvis-umpqua-rio will all brake right at the suggested weight! 8 pound will brake at 8 pound - I finally settled with seagaur for all my gear fishing and fly fishing, for the money it's the "BEST YOU CAN BUY" I read about it some 15 or 20 years ago in a saltwater mag. before fluoro was even know about with other fisherman and was one of the original companies to make it for "SALTWATER USE" and if it can keep those guys happy I had to try it! If you are just now going to start testing and researching fluoro products good luck because it should take years - I know it did me to settle on a good product at a good price!
Now testing lines to me can only be done on stillwaters, testing lines in moving water has to many variables to be accurate. I fished stillwater steelhead at the columbia backwaters above boni. for over 15 years and tested many egg cures - coon-stripe shrimp cures and yes leaders with bait under bobbers and flies with slow sinking fly lines with 12 to 14 foot leaders for stacked spooky steelhead and can say fluoro out fishes mono hands down in every way, no comparison! using fluorocarbon to be able to use 10 pound and 8 pound leaders for trout only helps to land fish fast to reduce mortality, the lowest I have had to go is 6 pound seagaur for stillwater trout up to 8 pounds. I have been trying to tell all the bait fisherman I run into while fly fishing for trout over east about fluoro because they fish 2 and 4 pound test leaders for these big smart trout that run 16 to 28 inches. releasing many of these fish to upgrade after the long drawn out battle the fish go through with light line and then released just kills them.
I'm not going to tell anybody to not use beads - or nymph for steelhead, or not use indicators or the only way to responsibly fly fish for steelhead is by swinging (what a joke)
But I will say if your not using fluorocarbon you are missing out on one of the best inventions-products that has ever came out for all fisherman, be it gear or fly!
Umpqua. Frog Hair. No problems.
Almost certainly the problem here is not the material, but the way it was stored. I still have spools of nylon monofilament that are perfectly fine after 15 years - but they are stored in a cool, dark, clean environment. Being left in the back seat of a car on a hot day is death to fishing line!
In my experience, ALL tippet eventually goes bad and usually the older it is, the more likely it is to break.
I used to stock up on tippet when I found it on sale. But since I don't go through that much of it, it didn't make sense for me to keep a 10-year supply on hand, no matter how good a deal I got on it, especially when the older stuff broke so often.
Nowadays, I've finally used up or thrown out my back stock of tippet and so I buy a fresh few spools at the beginning of every year. I'm a big fan of Orvis SuperStrong mono. It's about time for my annual purchase of a couple spools of 4X, and one each of 3X and 5X, along with a few 2-packs of SuperStrong 9' tapered leaders in 3X and 4X. This combination covers about 95% of my trout fishing needs.
To me, fluoro seems like an overpriced 'gimmick'. After using it extensively for several years, I found it didn't make any appreciable difference in my hookup rate. Plus, the money I saved by going back to mono buys me a bottle of whiskey, which I find a LOT more useful!