Rowing Comparison: Watermaster Kodiak vs. Scadden Renegade

Discussion in 'Watercraft' started by Panther, Jun 20, 2014.

  1. Panther

    Panther Member

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    Bigskyinflatables.com (maker of Watermaster) has a new web page. The company says that their "non-rockered" inflatable is more efficent for rowing than the rockered version offered by their competitors. They claim that rockered pontoons sit a little deeper in the water because because less surface space of the pontoons is in contact with the water so the draft is deeper.

    I row to sometimes cross a wide body of water reasonably quickly, and sometimes to troll.

    Is a Watermaster really easier to row, and perhaps faster on stillwater than a Renegade? Anxious to hear what you think.
     
  2. psycho

    psycho Active Member

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    Any time some one wants to put up some money on a Watermaster being faster than a rocketed boat, I am willing to show up with my 10 foot pontoon. :D
     
  3. sportsman

    sportsman Active Member

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    I can't believe that they would make such a claim. Desperate marketing ploy plain and simple. With the stock oars, my Renegade is way faster.......With the upgraded oars, it is more like 2 to 1 times faster. I just blow away my much younger buddies on their Kodiaks with ease. Race for "Pinks" ?? Anytime!!
     
  4. doublespey

    doublespey Steelhead-a-holic

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    Rockered boats (pontoon or frameless) are typically faster. Non-rockered are more stable and less influenced by wind. As with all boats, you choose what your priorities are.

    Faster doesn't necessarily equal "better". More stable doesn't either.

    BigSky Inflatables only claim was that they'd chosen a non-rocker design for the WaterMaster because that design was more stable and less influenced by wind. I agree with both those claims.

    Cheers,

    Brian
     
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  5. sportsman

    sportsman Active Member

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    The guy just asked which is faster, not better. BSI only choice was to buy a company with one design used on two models, that was created in the 90's. Nothing wrong with it, just keep the "claims" accurate.
     
  6. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

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    they make no speed claims so why do you assume "efficiancy" equals speed?
     
  7. psycho

    psycho Active Member

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    Less muscle energy spent equals efficiency. My rocketed boat leaves my buddies watermaster in the distance. Any boat with those funny oars take way more energy to move than a boat with proper oars. Drifting on moving water he takes three or so strokes to move the distance that I do with one stroke. Plus his boat is half the weight of mine, Now if you want to talk walking into a distant lake, he would leave me so far behind that all the fish would be caught before I even put my boat in the water. All boats have the pros and cons, no one is perfect for all occassions. That is why you can never have too many boats.:D
     
  8. Luke77

    Luke77 I hope she likes whitefish

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    The non-rockered will be much more stable and less influenced by turbulent water and wind. The rockered boat holds MUCH better in current as the water can flow under the middle and not just around the boat. I have rowed watermasters and the assault XX and the assault, while being quite a bit larger, still was quicker and held better in current. If "speed" was the only determining factor, I would go with a rockered boat.
     
  9. Panther

    Panther Member

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    Thanks for all of the very useful feedback.
     
  10. Blue

    Blue Active Member

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    Forgive me as I am not trying to stir the pot, but more I don't use WM. In what situation is it more stable and why? I understand it is more drag so it makes it less effected to get blown off a lake, but in the same breath, hard to row against the wind?
    I would think that the Renegade (or any other NFO) with the inflatable seat would make it more buoyant. The rockers make it ride over waves instead of smacking into them.
    I have an 8' Fuzion with rockers (slight but still has them) and I am able to stand on it pretty easy. I have several friends with better balance than I that stand on the Renegade and the Assault.
    Standing on an inflatable is like running white water...the person doing it.
     
  11. SpeyFitter

    SpeyFitter Active Member

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    Perhaps he may chime in on this thread if he has time, but there is a forum member here from BC (like myself) who can attest to the fact that boats with more waterline are often times more stable than boats without. While he was a whitewater guide on the Thompson River going through BC for many years, they used to run a boat recreationally they called the Skitterbug which were 10' military roller tubes from the 50's. They put a frame on two of these tubes and it was essentially a 10' pontoon boat that was all waterline - no rocker or kick. They took this boat out as a 2 man craft on the Chilko River at higher water, which has some fairly continuous class 4 (including a section called the "White mile" - basically 1 mile of continuous class 4 rapids), as well as several times down the Thompson River Gorge, which has some serious big water in it. Nowadays, you don't find a boat with 10' of waterline until you get to a 14' or 15' raft or cataraft tubes, depending on tube design. Most in here wouldn't dream or even think of running a 10' rockered pontoon boat down some class 4, never mind continuous or big water class 4. But waterline or contact with the water helps.

    This is why when people spout off about rocker I must bite my tongue as they're often just caving into marketing BS by you know who. It's also why boats like the AIRE Wave Destroyer and Sotar Legend Cataraft tubes are some of the most stable out there according to the whitewater crowd - they have radical kick, but it's up kick at the ends that the waves and holes can not act on as easily, and they have improved waterline over their more banana shaped traditional pontoon tubes.
     
  12. Blue

    Blue Active Member

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    I appreciate your answer Spey. But in the fact that I mentioned I have no experience with WM so I asked my question, would this gentleman have any experience with a rockered equal to give a compared answer? If he ran/run only waterline, how would we know if he wouldn't like a rockered?
    I have the 14' NFO Drifter that granted it was an easy float, this boat was so stable. we both were hanging off the same side with no tip. We skimmed across gravel a little over 2 inches without having to get out.
    It is rockered, but as you say, may have 10' waterline.
     
  13. SpeyFitter

    SpeyFitter Active Member

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    The guys got several years running SERIOUS whitewater in rafts, J-rigs, Kayaks, and other craft on the Thompson, Chilko, Stein (Class 4-5 rivers), etc.. He also trained whitewater rafting guides for 5 years. He's now a paramedic. When he talks I listen.
     
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  14. Blue

    Blue Active Member

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    Back to the op's question, I would think Rockered is much faster and more responsive on stillwater. I fished with a gentleman on a WM at Henry's. I was able to move easier and quicker, however, during the usual wind storm he appeared to be able to hold one spot better. He did have to work to get in though.
     
  15. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    The rocker on the Renegade is pretty minimal. It's not like comparing a whitewater kayak to a rec boat. I've never used a Watermaster, but of those that have every one has complained about the speed on both still and moving water. Stability is not an issue with the Renegade, at least when sitting. Wind disturbance, sail effect, can be.